Please change the war declaration mechanics - The cost MUST GO UP - Make War decs, a proper reason

[JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE]

I agree that the wardec mechanic is not fulfilling the role i believe it was intended to fill, your proposal seems reasonable to me, 5bil is pocket lint to anybody that should reasonable be declaring war.

[Nico_Boru]

@JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE

Corporation A is war decked, player B quits the corp because he cannot make ISK, griefers have seen to that.

Player B joins Corporation B - Repeated process
Player B joins corporation C - Repeated process.
Player B joins corporation D - Repeated process
Player B joins corporation E - Repeated process

There are npc corps between those making him immune to wardecs. Also that would mean 99.9% of all people in his channels are setting him up for failure by not teaching him a damn thing. Also hes a dumdum for not reaching out and asking questions. 0 accountability for his own actions. 0 initiative to make things better for himself.

Edit: Quote actually comes from Evasive Shadow Assassin.

[MinerArt]

@Merin_Ryskin

How does the attacker gank a target that never undocks and has infinite income?

Same problem. Other side of coin. No risk. Attacker can camp for infinity days and never get fight. Defender can camp for infinity days and never get a fight. War lacks risk universally.

[JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE]

@Nico_Boru

There are npc corps between those making him immune to wardecs. Also that would mean 99.9% of all people in his channels are setting him up for failure by not teaching him a damn thing. Also hes a dumdum for not reaching out and asking questions. 0 accountability for his own actions. 0 initiative to make things better for himself.

Edit: Quote actually comes from Evasive Shadow Assassin.

This post is absolutely 100% unacceptable. You should delete the post as shown above and make a new one. Anyone that just glances at your post is going to think that piece of trash quote is actually mine.

I have flagged the post for removal.

[MinerArt]

@ISD_Buldath please fix the quote and then delete this post.

Thanks.

[Eimar_Akytamku]

Want to stop war dec blankets?

Increase the cost for each additional war dec a corporation makes.

You can even keep the war dec fee for the first war at 50 mil then.

War Dec #1 against Corp A - 50 mil per week
War Dec #2 against Corp B - 100 mil per week
War Dec #3 against Corp C - 200 mil per week
War Dec #4 against Corp D - 400 mil per week
War Dec #5 against Corp E - 800 mil per week
War Dec #6 against Corp F - 1,6 bil per week
… and so on.

(actual numbers can be tweaked)

You can do the same the other way around with increasing costs of war decs, if one corp/alliance has several wardecs upon them (in order to keep the entire universe from war deccing Goonswarm for example).

Would mean that merc alliances might actually consider doing some actual hunting rather than war dec carpets and hub camping.

Also, to avoid having a corp griefed upon through a single war dec for weeks/months on end, you can also start increasing the war dec cost for each additional week the war goes on. Also put a cooldown period before you can war dec the same corp/alliance again.

There. Fixed.

[Merin_Ryskin]

@Eimar_Akytamku

You can do the same the other way around with increasing costs of war decs, if one corp/alliance has several wardecs upon them (in order to keep the entire universe from war deccing Goonswarm for example).

IOW, “my alpha alt corps all dec my main corp so the cost to have a real war against them is too high”.

Would mean that merc alliances might actually consider doing some actual hunting rather than war dec carpets and hub camping.

Here’s a better solution: corps that are involved in a war should stop being stupid and mindlessly flying into trade hubs, making hub camping pointless. Until players take advantage of the existing mechanics and stop earning Darwin awards we don’t need to make any changes.

Also, to avoid having a corp griefed upon through a single war dec for weeks/months on end, you can also start increasing the war dec cost for each additional week the war goes on. Also put a cooldown period before you can war dec the same corp/alliance again.

Long-term war is not griefing.

[SWAGGZENEGGER]

U cannot deny someone from attacking you. If you want to be on your own or join other corps outside of NPC corps you gota take risks.

[MinerArt]

@Merin_Ryskin

Until players take advantage of the existing mechanics and stop earning Darwin awards we don’t need to make any changes.

And when players begin using existing mechanics it becomes useless to even have war in the game. So why wait to discuss it?

[Eimar_Akytamku]

@Merin_Ryskin

IOW, “my alpha alt corps all dec my main corp so the cost to have a real war against them is too high”.

That’s a good point. But that also means you’re gonna do what… 500 mil or something in war decs against yourself every week, in order to push the prices up?

Still. You could just leave it at a penalty for the war deccing corp, to pay more ISK the more number of war decs you have.

@Merin_Ryskin

Long-term war is not griefing.

Marmites having a 2 month constant war dec on a newbie indy corp in HS with 20 members? The end effect of that is that corp ceasing to exist, because they have absolutely no way of being able to counter that.

That’s griefing. Not say it’s disallowed. But it’s griefing.

[Merin_Ryskin]

@Eimar_Akytamku

Marmites having a 2 month constant war dec on a newbie indy corp in HS with 20 members? The end effect of that is that corp ceasing to exist, because they have absolutely no way of being able to counter that.

That’s griefing. Not say it’s disallowed. But it’s griefing.

No, it is not griefing. It is legitimate gameplay and part of EVE’s core principles. You are not entitled to success, a 20-man corp being crushed because they are too weak and incompetent to fight back is supposed to happen. The problem is not the war, it’s that newbies feel entitled to make a corp right from day one and succeed instead of viewing making their own corp as an endgame goal to work towards someday, with a high chance that their attempt fails and the corp dies.

[Eimar_Akytamku]

@Eimar_Akytamku

That’s griefing. Not say it’s disallowed. But it’s griefing.

Reading comprehension.

It is griefing. Eve allows griefing. Nothing new here.

[Merin_Ryskin]

@Eimar_Akytamku

It is griefing. Eve allows griefing. Nothing new here.

It is not griefing. Griefing refers to specific actions that do not include “declaring war on a corp and not ending it until the corp is destroyed”. That is just normal PvP.

[MinerArt]

@Eimar_Akytamku

It is griefing.

Known & Declared Exploits

Constant War Declarations

War Declarations are a risk that every player corporation has to face and they are under no circumstances considered harassment. Wars in general can be completely avoided by remaining in an NPC corporation.

[Eimar_Akytamku]

Is this really that difficult to understand?

Urban Dictionary: griefing

2. In online gaming where one repeatedly killing the same individual or individuals over and over again, or camping their corpse to prevent them from retrieving it, or otherwise performing actions in a game to prevent the player from enjoying the game.

I’ve already mentioned twice, that it’s not against the rules. There’s tons of ways of griefing players in Eve, which is allowed. Doesn’t mean it isn’t griefing though.

[MinerArt]

@Eimar_Akytamku

I’ve already mentioned twice, that it’s not against the rules.

I linked to you the eve online rules in which it is openly declared not an exploit nor harassment. If you disagree with CCP’s official statement then you are not listening.

[Eimar_Akytamku]

Are you daft or something?

I never said it was against the rules. I’ve mentioned THREE times, that it’s within the rules. Wtf is wrong with you?

I also don’t disagree with the rules, in terms of constant war declarations. Not saying it shouldn’t be allowed. What I did say, was that the mechanics allow for it in a way that is not necessary, and causes more harm than it probably does good.

My proposal was not to remove constant war decs, but actually make them cost more the longer you uphold them.

So who the f**k isn’t listening?

[MinerArt]

@Eimar_Akytamku

What I did say, was that the mechanics allow for it in a way that is not necessary, and causes more harm than it probably does good.

Specifically:

@Eimar_Akytamku

Also, to avoid having a corp griefed upon through a single war dec for weeks/months on end

Yourself.

Constant war decs are not griefing here. Neither is packing up your corp and moving it. Nor is playing in full npc corp by using a private chat room. Nor is infiltaration of your corp so they know when you’re on.

Your best weapon vs people who keep a constant war dec against you is to make them bored. They show up and you dock up. You don’t fly anything you can’t afford to lose. Grab yourself some expedition frigates and mine ice in ships that can run away before they can get on grid. Sad as it is BORING is the best way to defend against attackers.

[Eimar_Akytamku]

I’m still not saying that it’s against the rule, and never did. Perhaps the required intelligence to comprehend that there’s variations to the definition and concept of griefing is above what your cognitive abilities are able to muster.

Let me be very, very clear:

• Corporations should still be able to endlessly war dec a corporation
• The cost should go up for each consecutive week that a war dec is upheld
• After a war dec expires, there should be a cooldown period before you can war dec again, that doesn’t require a surrender (as to avoid using that as a way around increased costs)

Clear enough for you? Or do I need to explain it on a kindergarten-level as well?

I personally have no problems with war decs being in the game. I think it’s a good feature, and should be kept by all means. But the mechanic of it is obviously broken with war dec carpets, and the cost itself is minimal right now. Those who claim that 50 mil is a lot of money to a corporation that wants to war dec someone, seriously need to up their ISK revenue by a ton.

High sec is high sec, and the war dec mechanic allows for PvP in high sec. But it should come at a cost. And a cost that isn’t so ridiculously low that you can easily uphold 100+ war decs in order to turn HS effectively into LS/NS without skipping a beat.

[MinerArt]

@Eimar_Akytamku

the definition and concept of griefing

Is clearly defined as not being part of constant war decs in this game.

@Eimar_Akytamku

But the mechanic of it is obviously broken with war dec carpets, and the cost itself is minimal right now.

And the problem is not griefing but you consider it as such. I do hope you’re not a corp leader.

@Eimar_Akytamku

But it should come at a cost. And a cost that isn’t so ridiculously low that you can easily uphold 100+ war decs in order to turn HS effectively into LS/NS without skipping a beat.

It needs a risk. Not a cost increase. Cost is nothing as you openly see. It’s not a solution to add cost to a thing that already has zero risk and just increases the cost because at some point we’ll have that cost not being enough again.

Put the risk in and you’ll learn who really are pvping and who are not.