While I usually applaud someone who finds a cause to believe in, you might want to take a breather Teckos. You are crossing the line to obsessive cult behavior.
I hear this RL thing can be quite enjoyable this time of year. Go check it out. Maybe have a beverage with an actual human in person.
Smells like bacon?
I am truly amazed in this thread.
Idiot Players: Too much ISK creation leads to inflation in gameā¦just like in real life.
Same Idiot Players: Teckos, this is a game and real life economics do not apply.
Even More of the Same Idiot Players: We can just all play in T1 ships with T1 modules or even better noob ships and civilian modules.
Yeahā¦thatās an impovement.
I am finding that all of my various forms of earning ISK are becoming less and less capable of producing a positive returnā¦
How many times can you do the tutorial?
Seriously, you position is: yeah getting space poor is awesome.
Lets go @Black_Pedro here. He is Very Worried About New Players (VWANP) and thinks these changes are good. But if prices are collapsing, then new players who have the least amount of ISK are hurt the most. He is completely incoherent. Someone like me with 10s of billions is not hurt nearly as much.
Seriously there is a massive ā ā ā ā ton of economic ignorance on stilts in this thread and from people whose views I typically respect, but youāve all become these bitter vets who spew economic nonsense that actually hurts new players. Simply unbelievable. Hopefully theyāll release the November MER and we can see what the latest economic data saysā¦interestingly they should have released it now. It is now Nov. 6th in Iceland where is the MER? They have had plenty of time to compile it and release it.
To be clear: A collapse in the money supply is, for me, not so bad at all. I have lots of ISK and a collapse in the money supply means I get richer doing literally ā ā ā ā ā ā ā nothing. Quite a bit richer. Even a new player with 20 million ISK cannot hope to match the return I get by simply having 10s of billions. Ever. And since my characters have lots of SP and ISK I can start buying skill books and making the ships I need. This is a recipe for driving out new players because they just donāt have the ability to complete. @Black_Pedro is so wrong hereā¦it is rather disappointing.
Speaks volumes
Sadly they were players I held in some regardā¦
I think you are talking on more levels than you know.
Unfortunate.
Okayā¦
You donāt see a problem with:
My position is economics is economics and it applies in game or elsewhere. The point is players who should know betterā¦donāt.
And I want to be wrong. I want the money supply to start growing again, I want the economy to start expanding again. I want the game to do well. But a money supply contraction where 3-4 months reverses 12 months of gains is Badā¢. It is right there in the reports and everyone has their heads so far up their butts it is a mild wonder they havenāt suffocated. Everyone is so focused on the āinflationā narrative they do not realize they are in a deflationary stateā¦but heyā¦lets make stupid posts. Good on you.
Is it a deflationary state if money supply is dropping overall but rising on a per capita basis?
I ask as this isnāt a situation we normally see IRL with a 50% population crash and mass confiscation and destruction of illegal cash ala botting.
Not saying economics doesnāt apply but wondering if we actually have any comparable situations to refer to anywhere.
Not anyoneās problem except their own.
Most in this thread probably think they are trying to talk through a wall. That wall may be ignorance or arrogance, but it really doesnāt matter.
You seem to come off and a doomsayer, and for every theory of doom pending, there will always be skeptics for good reason since most theories of doom donāt pan out, and you probably wonāt change their minds regardless of any number of dissertations you craft.
You come off as brash, crass, and arrogant which doesnāt help your cause in any shape or manner.
You might want to take a break, reflect a bit, and try a different approach.
You mean trading? This is not the end of the world. Itās also not the first time someone found their gameplay producing less positive returns.
Adapt?
Meanwhile new players are finding their wealth becoming stronger.
12 times per char?
And you can make unlimited charsā¦so unlimited. And you can make ventures from blueprints with a few minutes of mining in hisec.
There isnāt going to be a shortage of ventures.
This is the complete opposite.
Sellers may be hurt the most, but anyone tapping into isk faucets (like new playes running missions) get a wealth boost. Miners in hi-sec could be hurt by lower prices, but theyād also get a huge boost from the lower mineral supply from rorquals.
I donāt know mateā¦you keep worrying that ventures will become rare, despite all the blueprints already being established and moon mining in hi-sec being barely affected.
The reason the money supply is (was) collapsing was the active ISK delta more than anything else. This means players leaving the game. No matter how you slice that, that is bad. Especially if they are older players and their wallets full of ISK and their productive capabilities are leaving the game.
It is like your most experienced workers up and quit. Thatās never good.
Sure Bots getting the boot is a good thing. I am not making a āsave the botsā argument, but from the looks of this that isnāt the case. If players with the most productive characters are leaving thatās a serious problem.
I am generally the last person to sound the āEnd of the Worldā horn. That should give you pause. My view is, if players who have fat wallets are leaving the game that also likely correlates to players who have the highest levels of productivity too. After all, if you have characters who are very productive you tend to make more ISK. This is a problem is that is the case.
Again, check my posting history. I am not usually this pessimistic.
No I mean PI, invention, etc.
The way to adapt to inflation, dingdong, is to stop doing stuff. Stop doing PI, invention, etc. The time spent doing it is a waste. Just sit on your ISK and let it gain purchasing power.
Holy ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā . Did you people not take a basic economics course.
And then thatās it.
It isnāt the shortage of ventures but that with deflation anything you do will provide a decreasing return over time.
Do you know what deflation is? It means the real price is falling over time. That means every minute you mine you get less and less return.
Right, but at the same time there is less and less stuff for them to buy. Ammo, drones, etc. Eventually they canāt run their missions because there is nothing for them to put in their guns to shoot with.
Iām worrying that with a collapsing money supply prices will start to collapse and then consumption spending will collapse and with it the entire economy.
FFS man go read about things like the Great Depression. Everyone was worried about decreasing prices. So much so they were doing some really stupid ā ā ā ā . Like making entire industries into cartels and driving down output to drive up pricesā¦which makes things worse. The solution was to expand the money supplyāi.e. inflation.
Now the money supply in game appears to be growing again (yay). The price indices seem to be flattening out (yay). Things appear to be turning around (yay). I totally want this to go the other direction. I want a nice and reasonably stable growth rate in the money supply so we can stop worrying about this and worry about ship stats, modules, etc. I want CCP to realize blackout was a bad thing and not do it again (at least in that format). Despite what all the know-nothings are saying. Shrinking the money supply at 2x the former growth rate is a recipe for Goddamn disaster.
Well if itās any consolation, my main income is probably pi too.
Well no.
You can still trade pi stuff today for more isk than it cost to run. And then let that isk grow in purchasing power.
You should only stop doing an activity when it is no longer profitable or it is more profitable to do something else with the time. But thereās no reason to think pi will become unprofitable.
And you can make how many alpha characters?
Youāre still ignoring that it takes a matter of minutes for a venture to mine enough ore for another venture.
So now ventures arenāt a problem?
Two things:
Yes thereās deflation, however mineral supply was also down. Check what happened to mineral prices around the drifter invasion and black out.
Trit had a massive boost.
Second, your still assuming it would deflate to zero. Which it wouldnāt. There will still be demand for equipment and there will still be a supply. Isk will still be generated by faucets. It would just find a new equilibrium.
Ventures will still be made, bought and sold.
Honestly, why do you think this will happen?
Anyone, literally a new player, can run level 1 missions for a couple hours and afford a blueprint for ammo. Then they can mine for a few minutes in a venture and make enough ammo to last weeks!
An older player like myself can do it even quicker than that for the ammo i use.
Do you expect a shortage of BPOās? Will mineral availability in hisec change? What is it that will make ammo so impossible to produce?
This is doom mongering of the worst kind.
Does not apply.
How would the great depression look if people could get all the food, energy and accommodation they needed within minutes and with a tiny amount of effort. They donāt need jobs, everyone is self employed and/or paid on commision. There is no cost of living.
Because thatās eve.
Ammo, frigates, modules? Five minutes mining and a few more in industry.
Accommodation? Unlimited and invincible in the form of stations. Not subject to rent or maintenance.
Food? Lol.
The great depression does not happen to eve. It literally cannot. We are too capable of being self sufficient.
We are more likely to go through an emotional depression as content becomes more and more scarce and characters continue to die off from boredom.
Yay. Go farms.
New players donāt need purchasing power anyways. /S
Actually itās just the opposite. Sitting on your ISK in an inflationary environment LOSES purchasing power. Every second that goes by devalues your savings. Basic economics 101.
I think he made a slip there and meant deflation instead of inflation.
at least history of his posting in this thread would imply so.
Removed some off topic posts.
You canāt have inflation in EvE because there is no interest rate on debt.
Inflation only matters when your access to money supply is controlled by a debtor-creditor system or some cartel or beneficiary of the supply. (Such as a sovereign creating money to use himself.)
Changing prices of goods relative to each other are irrelevant to the change in money supply.
More money without a debtor-creditor relationship makes all prices cheaper equally in theory.
If inflation favors ONE groupā¦then it can skew this. But how is the money supply in EvE inflated? To Null secārs only? To High secārs? To pveāers?
Etc.
Considering inflation/deflation is a function of the money supply this is justā¦wellā¦nonsense.
No. Inflation is a result of an increase in the money supply.
Sorry, Iām used to typing inflationā¦I meant deflation. Deflation means sitting on your ISK as it implies a positive real rate of return for doing so. Holding ISK in a deflationary environment makes you richer, so stop spending.
no that is a symptom of recession usually a result of no balls
no we dont
reduced growth is not deflation
this game has an infinite isk supply
so what
you still dont understand what a recession is or what you are talking about
Where can I see how much ISK was made in the wormholes?