This is extremely optimistic and wholly unrealistic
It is very optimistic, that’s why its “perfect” conditions, but it isn’t as unrealistic as you’d think. Hyperspat + ascendencied marauders have been used in pochven by us in the past in order to do this with a scout in each system for perfect intel of where it spawns
the scout wakes the site up and the marauders, having more warp speed than a hyperspat sabre, burn over as fast as they can and help mop up the outside while burning to the gate
either way the point illustrates that assuming you have absolutely perfect uptime and clear speeds of these sites, without fail and without a contest for the site, uninterrupted for a month, you would be able to generate only 4.652t a month
the reality is that yes, you likely wont have perfect intel, you wont use hyperspat-marauders, you will get a contest every so often, so this scenario is never going to happen and the MER will probably show 3.5-3.8t (the number on the MER will be higher than this as obs are not the only site that is “triglavian invasion” content)
also i’ve updated the chart to include the kills from the 19th and change the moving average to 7 days
That’s very short. Consider 3 sites at any one time, you’re looking at an average of 9 jumps between sites (they spawn in the home systems too remember). You’re not moving a fleet of marauders across 9 systems in 2 minutes. I’d be putting at least 10 minutes if not 15 minutes into the travel times per site
yep, as above i specified that those are “perfect” conditions and have a lot of assumptions/requirements behind them, i used it as an example to calculate the absolute ceiling of monthly obs income
That is, if kills & losses are increasing elsewhere, wouldn’t it be a good thing to see an increase of combat in a diverse range of activities, instead of just one activity?
The measured drop in kills/losses is uncontroversial. I think it only looks at half the picture though, so it’s still up to opinion (especially without more hard data) whether the net effect is good for the universe or not.
For example, I know some of the PvP groups are now shopping around FW, and if other PvP groups spread to other places, we’re seeing that drop in combat in Pochven instead be upticks elsewhere. Hard to say it’s a “net negative change” in that case.
Moving ships and changing what you do always sucks though, not fun to haul stuff around / fire sale / get resituated.
Alot of the people that moved to FW did so before the changes went live (Horde had a FW SIG already, Rote had already moved to Turnur, volta was already invested in FW and had almost entirely left poch) so that is somewhat irrelevant. I’m not really looking at the net effect on the universe (which would be nearly impossible to measure anyway mind you) because that is a pretty bad reason to nerf a region this heavily, especially one that was very different to the rest of eve in how the ecosystem worked and how engagements worked due to the nature of the space
If you reduced the income generation of all wormhole activities by this amount and then told them “well alot of you will move out of wormholes so its ok” then you’d probably get chewed out non stop for months
I’m not saying “well PvP goes up in other regions is a reason to nerf Pochven”. The lower activity with the 90 minute wait is indeed certainly negatively affecting Pochven and an unpleasant new “CCP feature” for people that want to live there. You’re not hearing objections from me there. In fact, it’s an entirely expected outcome – but whether CCP accounted for this is more a question for a CSM rep.
Others – perhaps not you, but others in this thread – tend to take a more hyperbolic stance of “this is killing Eve”, and that exaggeration is what I’m questioning. For any change CCP does – mining, ganking, etc – there’s always a segment of the players that say “this is the one thing I do and everyone else must be like me, if CCP ever changes it then I’ll whip out the ‘game is dead’ meme” and that’s what I’m pushing back on. Nothing fundamentally changed about the nature of Pochven – filaments didn’t change, acceleration gates / deadspace pockets weren’t modified/removed/added, gates into Pochven weren’t added, the Poch WHs are still there, so at a fundamental level, the kind of PvP that is fun is still there. Just the frequency of opportunity changed from “always on” to “intermittent”. That sucks, but it’s not like the opportunity for that special PvP is entirely gone either. CCP could have bungled it even worse.
The nature of my criticism might not apply to you directly, but I’m certainly skeptical of others dramatically preaching doom from atop a soapbox, and they happen to use your data for exaggerative effect.
(Also I agree with you that collecting that other activity data is near impossible – I’m not asking anyone to do it)
Aye I agree for the most part with that, Pochven definitely won’t be dead because of this change but a huge part of it’s ecosystem is negatively effected by this.
yeah the fundamentals are still there, but the gap in the opportunities are so large that day tripping is essentially no longer a possible thing to do over a reasonable time commitment for the activity
but whether CCP accounted for this is more a question for a CSM rep.
on this note I do have some news to report, a round table is being organised for the majority of the groups that contribute to the ecosystem to discuss the new problems with CCP, It will convene early Jan after everyone is back from the holidays
Currently we have 1 rep from each of the following (currently 7 CSM members are part of this list):
Purple helmeted warriors
The Boyz
Stribog Clade
Doras School for people who cant poch good
Pandemic Horde
Fraternity
The Morgue
V0lta
Rote Kapelle
Brave Alliance
Goonswarm Federation
Initiative
Electus Matari
Turbofeed or Glory
Along with currently 5 CCP Devs and 2 more that has been invited but not responded yet, plus one independent representative
Like the last time a round table was done there will be a few weeks of back and forth, data and discussion, the consensus will be documented and given to CCP and if possible released to the public
Anecdotally, our nightly gatecamp has seen content almost completely dry up. This was a pretty significant kick in the ass for Pochven. Needs to be reversed and some other way that’s not as drastic be implemented instead.
I speak as someone who does not benefit from the Obs fleet isk printing. I think it is a problem that it was so easy to essentially print isk constantly with the Obs, if you have a 15 or so ships, well setup. Its also a problem that there are several very obvious input broadcasting multiboxers making billions for themselves with limited risk or skill.
However, pochven’s unique point is that these shiny fleets are not supported by caps, cannot call cyno’d backup or overwhelming blobs, and all have to fly around a circuit of a limited number of systems. That means there is constant traffic, and fleets are concentrated into a small space. That means conflict and targets. Since the change, that has all gone. There is nothing much else to do in pochven than run the obs, or mess with the traffic (we do the latter). For a small pvp group that lef tnull because its all big blocks and blobs, pochven was a decent option. Looks like its dying on its arse. Not sure what is left for us to be honest.
Cool thing, cross fingers you can get CCP to invest dev time into ideas! My main wish would be Pochven to again become a place for everybody with dedication and not just the farming ground for the big blocs. Keep scalable ISK flow at or below big blocs alternatives.
This fight was due to an armor/hull timer on one of horde’s skarkon structures, which they obviously came to defend. As i’m specifically trying to track normal pochven activity and the attempt on the skarkon structure is specifically because of the changes to pochven, I’ve taken this fight out of the data
its definitely one of the more annoying problems that plagued the region, however it wasn’t unchecked, we were banning them in waves every time it was possible, one of the more egregious cheaters gave up entirely and left. Post change they are still around sometimes but the activity of them has dropped off significantly (on a totally unrelated note i’m now going to be monitoring the k-space flashpoints for cheaters aswell)
The main issue that i think contributed to this change was the region slowly becoming less and less risky (over the previous 3 months alone, destruction reduced by 8% while income increased by 17%)
there are far more elegant ways to stem run away safe krabbery in the region without being as insanely heavy handed as this change was. The round table isn’t even going to be formed properly until after the holidays but it is already extremely obvious that everyone is already united behind how bad of an effect this change had
I don’t know who this guy is, but he is lying about Horde being represented in this round table. Looks like he invited 1 FC from our group to his discord and now is trying to claim to CCP/ to the community that he has ‘a representative for all the major groups’. Wouldn’t be surprised if he had no reps from the other major groups either. Luckily someone linked me this post.
Yes because the flashpoints and “new Pochven” got solved. Have no illusions, if the payout is worth it every problem CCP is throwing the players’ way will be solved, especially if attracted by the big blocks. The only realistic way to keep them out in masses is to make it not their first or second choice for ISK making.
Limit this behavior to ships that have bonuses to drone damage/HP/tracking/whatever and we can talk. It would be extremely frustrating if the NPC behaved like that on other ships that do not have any of these bonuses and use drones only as auxiliary damage/utility.
In certain combat plexes that I regularly fly the NPC already behave very erratically: sometimes no drone aggro, sometimes only elite cruisers attack them, other times BC and destroyers, again other times only elite frigates. It is already a pain to manage the completely unbonused drones in these circumstances. Punish drone boats specifically and you have me on board with the suggestion.
But most importantly: Don’t repeat the stupid stunt from last year when CCP turned auto-aggression on drones off so that they didn’t even attack when you fired weapons at a target. That was beyond dense.
he is lying about Horde being represented in this round table. Looks like he invited 1 FC from our group
so i’m not lying then am i, you literally have a rep invited for horde
if you want to change the rep get in touch with me mate, its not like i’m hard to contact considering we are in multiple discords together, i’ve dm’ed you
I chose an FC over leadership because they generally live(d) in Poch and leadership generally doesn’t, didn’t think that would be controversial
