Pochven Must Burn!

There is only one goal, and that is the safeguarding and continuation of our people’s culture. If there is disagreement, it stems from what actions should be taken in order to achieve that goal. Not from what the goal should be.

I understand my place. Having served in the navy, I also understand the place of the State’s armed forces. That is to follow the instructions and directives of the State as expressed by the Chief Executive Panel and the chain of command that emanates downwards from it. I also understand the place of the State Protectorate and it’s affiliated corporations and alliances. That is to fight out the territorial dispute in low security space as privateers. If I said the sort of things that Caldari Militia capsuleers say on the IGS during my time in the navy I would have faced disciplinary action. At the present I am already closely scrutinised by both my Mega and the Caldari Business Tribunal on a regular basis, and my continued presence here suggests that neither my behaviour nor my business practices have been deemed inappropriate.

I am glad to hear that you still hold the correct opinion regarding the sixteen occupied systems. I am, however, confused by this notion that the enemy of our enemy is supposedly someone to cheer for if they are also our enemy. There is functionally no difference between Gallente, Guristas, Triglavians and Kybernauts. All seek to destroy or subvert our way of life. Such individuals are not to be fraternised with.

It can also mean that the Gallente-Caldari war cut off the few remaining stragglers on Caldari Prime from the whole, and that the way of life of an interstellar power differs somewhat from the way of life of a valley-bound settlement near the Kaalakiota peaks. Circumstances change, and it certainly has an effect on the people that go through them, but that does not change that the guiding principles between the two groups will be the same, because Wayism does not alter in the face of circumstances. Rather, it counsels us on how to meet any challenge in a way that conforms with that of our ancestors. I see very little difference, for instance, between how we use contemporary longbow fits, and how the Raata men of yore dealt with their enemies in the forests using actual bows. Technology advanced, the approach did not.

No, because Caldari citizens are beholden solely to the CEP, their megas, or the superiors appointed by those bodies. Accepting orders or suggestions from outsiders is treasonous.

The Gallente-Caldari war and the retaking of Caldari Prime.

That is just not correct on any level though. Are you so desperate to label me a traitor that you speak blatant falsehoods? Come on, Tereven-haani, I have full confidence that you would not stoop so low.

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And yet, two groups under different conditions, adhering to the same guiding principles, still develop different cultures. Yours still changed, in ways it obviously did not need to, had you stayed on Caldari Prime. Meanwhile, you claim you left specifically to avoid having to give up your culture. But they didn’t leave, and they didn’t give up their culture. Which means you didn’t have to leave to avoid that.

And that, by leaving, you did give up your previous culture, and instead developed a new one that better fit new conditions.

So, a decade ago. Plenty of time for officers to cycle out, new ones to cycle in, altering levels of competency. Plenty of time for tactics and counters to evolve, raising issues of the Caldari Navy failing to keep up with innovation.
Not exactly helping the case there.

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Also to add to this, in terms of retaking Caldari Prime, we should keep in mind the main reason the State had the advantage to begin with was the whole operation being a sneak attack that caught the Fedeeration off guard after CONCORD’s network went down.

The State took advantage of a “perfect storm” and that’s what gave them their immediate success, but these were just the first steps towards taking an L.

The operation itself doesn’t come off as being competently thought out. They’re trying to take over a singular planet in the heart of Federation territory. So not only was a counterattack obviously going to happen, but the Federation were an asteroid throw away from Naval HQ.

Ultimately as history goes, The State would be chased off - but not before losing a titan that did far more than just become a wreck in space, but crashed into the planet and gave it a scar that it will never forget.

It’s hard to take this as an example of State Naval competency as the whole op was doomed to fail. Thousands upon thousands of Statesmen dying in vain out of pride once again.

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If we hadn’t fought the Federation to a stalemate during the Gallente-Caldari war, they wouldn’t have learned to leave us alone, and that includes the remaining communities of our people on Caldari Prime.

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Right, because picking up and running away, leaving the planet entirely under their control for centuries, that really showed them, right?

Your people left, and in doing so, abandoned the culture they had in order to build a new one as a multi-stellar megacorporate oligarchy. Nothing you’ve said changes that.

I’m not saying that was a ‘bad’ choice, or even a ‘wrong’ choice. It was their choice, and they had every right to make it. But you can’t claim their departure was some noble move to preserve their culture as it was… because they clearly didn’t.

If they had, then I don’t know how willing they’d have been to accept Achurans as ‘Caldari’, since they’re very clearly… well… a different culture.

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We did not run away. We evacuated our homeworld in an orderly manner whilst the servicemen and women of the Caldari Navy gave their lives to buy us the time to do so. And it very much did show them. Once Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba was done with them, the Federal Navy abandoned all hope of interfering with the evacuation by means of blockade or invasion. His offensive gave them the first real taste of how far we are willing to go to keep our people safe, and it is an example for all Caldari to follow.

Our people evacuated in an orderly manner and took our culture with us.

That is exactly what I am claiming because it is the truth.

Close co-operation between the Caldari and the Achurans, both in a military sense and in civil society is both acceptable and desirable, but in order for someone to be accepted as a Caldari, they would have to adopt our culture to the same degree as the Deteis and the Civire. If the Achurans did that, they would be abandoning their way and betraying their ancestors in the process. This is undesirable because every culture is unique and should be cherished by the people it produces.

If I may, I would strongly recommend simply hiding Arrendis’ posts on the IGS, as I have for a time now.
I assure you it will improve your experience dramatically, that woman has literally nothing worthwhile to say, just loves hearing herself talk about things she obviously knows very little about.

You make your culture sound like it’s something that can be neatly packaged and transported. Like it’s furniture to pick up and move into another house.

Culture is a bit more than that, it’s a living thing that is carried by human beings. Carried by those that left Caldari Prime, and carried by those that stayed. And it will evolve and expand as time goes on, it’s natural.

The fact is, that there are people on Caldari Prime that practice traditions older than the State itself that are apart of Caldari heritage and swear no identity towards the State and most likely won’t want anything to do with it.

Beyond that there’s sub-groups throughout the Federation that cling into more modern Caldari values and customs- still seeing no loyalty towards the State.

Khanid Kingdom incorporates Caldari values with it’s strong Amarrian influences.

And many of the detectors of the Caldari State took with them values and customs the State taught them with the Guristas… Giving them their own little twist of course. But I get it - Guristas are barabrian savages that know nothing of culture - blahblah.

All of these are branches of the culture you cling to, differnt variations, understandings and interpretations. The culture found in the State is no differnt, it absolutely has evolved and changed over time, and it something that is not trapped within the confines of the State’s borders. And if it was? I wouldn’t look at that as a strong culture, but one that’s weak and fragile, dependent on a system of government that can be defunct anyday now.

 | Quite right, Charles, my bad.
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I am trying to avoid a tongue-in-cheek joke relating to how, exactly, a thread about Federal prisoners being executed somehow turned into people arguing about the State.

I appreciate the more valid contributions to this thread’s discussion where they’ve been made. I’m side-eyeing the other ones.

Anyway, if we can get back on topic, that’d be super cool.

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So, you’d like to hear about treatment of Federal prisoners?
Well, you’ve got it, Ms. Malitia has shown us all how we shall treat them. That’s the most just and humane thing to do, especially considering how Federals treat Caldari prisoners.

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You forgot to include tried and convicted terrorists in the description, but I forgive you.

Heh.

Why don’t you do us all a favour and join the Trigs, Diana. You clearly agree with what most of them say and do. It would help a lot more having you in the same place so we can deal with two birds with one stone.

This would require a proper recognised court with a fair judge and jury. As it was done behind closed doors as to suit your own agenda, it makes this sort of thing a farce. It is an easy case when there is just yourself to argue with.

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It was absolutely a recognized court. A court recognized by the entity claiming authority over capsuleer crimes against kybernauts-- namely, us. We hired qualified legal professionals. We provided every defendant with competent counsel. Trial by jury is not a guaranteed right in every jurisdiction, did you know that? (Probably not, given the profligate nature of your beloved Federation.) There was evidence. There was documentation. And there was memorialization of the outcome for the official records.

Wirashoda no longer belongs to New Eden. It was conquered, and by right of conquest it is Triglavian now. But in the absence of a Triglavian-ordained legal system for us, we kybernauts simply drew upon our most commonly-held civic values and established one for ourselves. You know-- just like true democracies do at the behest of their own population. Anything less would be uncivilized .

As an apologist for the decadently extravagant Gallente Federation, you should probably refrain from criticizing when a group of people elects to adopt a system that establishes due process of law.

And by right of tradition it is Federal Caldari.

How long can civilizations keep that contest up? My people’s track record is 900 years.

Hope you are geared up for the long night.

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Oh, Elsebeth. I do not fear the darkness. I revel in it.

Chaos makes opportunity for new order. And conflict is merely Proving in another disguise.

And… Wirashoda Federal? No, Elsebeth. It never was. Watch your back, sister. Diana and Remilia have long knives. Heh.

I know you have a long standing tradition of spewing nothing but worthless nonsense, but this is impressively stupid even for you. I sincerely hope for your sake that this is just an error brought upon by your disgusting hallucinogenic tea affecting your rapidly degenerating brain rather than a provocation against State sovereignty.

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Wirashoda’s location in the Forge, in a constellation adjacent to the Caldari’s fallback positions established in Lonetrek prior to their total collapse in relations with the Federation, place it well outside the greatest historical extent of Gallente territorial expansion, it can be considered Federal by right of fantasy alone.

Wirashoda is Caldari; and God willing, the Empire will one day assist our allies in the State in reasserting control of it.

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Eh I apologize for the lapse of tongue. Fixed above.

Figures you all would stick to it and not to the actual point: a year is an exceptionally short time for the right of conquest to settle in.

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