logging in for a few minutes per day isn’t really all that much effort
as for OP what needs to happen is Gantries need to be removed and POCO should be fully constructed from the start and then anchored. Its a mechanic not found anyplace else in eve and is clearly just causing a problem
That said what you need to do is submit a ticket and see if CCP does deem this an exploit. that’s going to be a lot faster than expecting them to change the mechanic.
to be honest, playing Gantry Hot potatoe is Emergent Game play.
Now here is the counter: You get some gank alts/friends, sit them on the Gantry, wardec gantry…gank any corp owning target the shows up at the gantry…
destroy gantry
replace with your own
set up poco.
this requires you being there for 24hrs with no break.
Blockquote That said what you need to do is submit a ticket and see if CCP does deem this an exploit. that’s going to be a lot faster than expecting them to change the mechanic.
Tickets have been raised more than once and the request was made to post on the forum.
or ten nerds for 2.4 hr each…
I believe it was posted above, #gitgud
yeah… that’s healthy gameplay.
Have to add to OP’s voice here. This does read as somewhat exploitative, as our own alliance has faced the same thing trying to clear up unupgraded POCOs. Hopefully we get an answer back from CCP at the least, if not a change.
As for the ‘gitgud’ attitude about this being kicked around, I can assure you in our case it very much wasn’t a form of pvp being deployed against our alliance specifically, since the gantries have been in place since before we started our clean up campaign, doing the same thing to other people trying to also access the planets for PI. This issue is also a lot more endemic than merely “pick another system” as our scouting has shown dozens of systems being blockaded in this manner. Clearly we’re seeing fairly wide spread use of what feels like a general griefing tactic against anyone wanting to do PI in those systems.
It’s interesting when things that clearly tip too far out of the grey towards the black that defenders immediately cry it’s “emergent gameplay” as if it’s some kind of magic spell that protects the activity. POS bowling was emergent gameplay, despite having no reasonable counter. Probing down a titan before it could initiate its login warp was emergent gameplay, despite also having no reasonable counter.
Simply having a prescribed counter to the problem does not mean it’s an objectively reasonable one, especially when it forces a group to have to divide up shifts they may not have the manpower for to get a gank, but do have the manpower to kill the gantry in a wardec itself. To clarify, a reasonable counter doesn’t always mean a fair one when you look at specific cases, but means it’s reasonable to expect it’s possible to achieve and that it fits the gameplay mechanics as intended. It’s certainly up to CCP to ultimately decide if the conditions of gantry blockades and their prescribed counters are acceptable or not, but given the somewhat unreasonable level of effort needed to counter it compared to the objectively trivial amount of effort the defender has to do to stay wardec immune, this clearly stinks.
not my problem.
Also, these gantry’s the OP talks about…
Might be some of the ones Blackflag are trying to recover for Omega.
I bet the gantry owner might have been more inclined to create POCO’s if others had stood up to the 12-14 guys multiboxing fleets in Blackflag more often.
perhaps tagging in another csm other than brisc may help… @Kenneth_Feld know anything about this possibly, or bring up to ccp?
CCP is aware.
ok… I saw another post about you not being involved with industry, so i wasn’t sure if you were the right one to tag or not 
thanks for the reply though.
I’m not an industry expert, but I don’t see this as an industry thing - this is a war dec thing. Regardless, it was brought up over the weekend.
There are counters to this. Git gud is an applicable statement.
Perhaps you shouldn’t have lost the POCO in the first place. As a defender you are even granted a
reinforcement timer at your choosing.
We didn’t lose the POCOs in our case. We’re looking to replace the gantries of others. I also refer to my previous post that there are exploits with counters, but CCP concluded they were unreasonable and the acts were outside the intent and scope of the mechanics involved. We’ll see what they say on this, given it’s mostly only gantries that you can do this corp flip flop with.
It is virtually the same mechanic with POS towers. So close in fact I suspect they are part of the same programming code.
Best practice for CCP would be to finally release the player owned FOBs and delete POS and gantry/POCOs for good.
CCP was concerned about “structure spam” that resulted from the early Upwell mechanics, and then changed them to ‘fix’ the issue. When it comes to POCOs they should also review the distribution of the current owners of POCOs and determine whether the existing mechanic is serving the goals CCP has.
Let’s also be clear that is a highsec specific issue. Yet changes will affect all regions that have them.
You’re absolutely correct on all counts there. That said, POS sticks aren’t really an issue since citadels became a thing, and gantries are actively blocking planetary interaction.
It is certainly a difficult issue, since they’re obviously tacked on to POS code which affects a bunch of stuff it really aught not to, so I’m not expecting an immediate patch fix for this especially as it could impact things all over New Eden. That said, I think it would be reasonable to have some clarification if this is an intended and justifiable use of the mechanics or not in the meantime, but we’ll wait and see there.
It’s not though… towers take far longer to anchor and un anchor
But yeah I would assume they use the same it similar code
Pos also can’t block access to resources anymore and never could in high sec
its only a highsec specific issue because there isn’t anything stopping anyone shooting a gantry anywhere else… and any of the suggested possible changes would have zero effect in other areas of the game.
In low sec, you can show up whenever and kill the gantry, no ref timer. No dec to avoid. and you can effectively gank the attempts are replacement.
In null/WH it’s even easier as you can use bubbles to restrict warp in to the gantry if you want.
Okay,
Many people have claimed that there were no counter play options for various things when, in fact, there were. However, I don’t know enough about the mechanics surrounding this issue to know whether or not that is the case here. So, I have to ask, are the gantry guys invulnerable? Because if so, I would consider that an issue. I mean, I’m all for mechanic fuckery, but no one should be completely impervious to attack.
