First you receive a fleet invite out of nowhere.
You don’t expect that, you wtf a couple of seconds, and you proceed to click “No” to the invite.
Next, sometimes in the exact moment you are clicking the “No” button for the fleet invite, you receive a duel invite, and guess where your cursor just is…
So, either the UI needs to do something clever to prevent players from doing this.
Or the simplest option is to turn on the “Auto Reject Invitation” Duel option by default.
Edit: On @Qia_Kare suggestion, a better and also relatively simple solution would be to implement a long-press button to accept Duels. This should mitigate if not avoid entirely accepting duels by mistake.
default settings for duell are off as i remember … so you have to opt in if you want to start a duel !
so there is no baiting if you didnt opt in the duel settings !
im pretty sure they changed it a few years ago that you have to activate it … still if i´m wrong then there is no problem because there are way less duel baiters out there then gankers and stil ganking has no problem !
yes maybe they catch one per day but why should this be important ? oO its one player of tentousends players per day …
In this instance, I agree with the OP. As a matter of principle, I think the player should be able to trust the UI to carry out their intended actions and not to trick them into making dangerous and irreversible decisions.
I think this particular situation would be difficult to exploit since you’d have to get the timing near perfect and you have no way of knowing for sure what that timing is, but I think even 1 person agreeing to a duel because of a UI exploit is too many.
In my opinion, mistakes players make in Eve should be ones they can own. That is, they should be things they chose to do deliberately that led to a bad outcome. Being tricked into a duel through the lies and subterfuge of another player is a mistake that can be owned, but being tricked into a duel you would have rejected because the UI threw a window up at the exact moment you were clicking on another UI dialog looks more like a fluke, or bad luck, causing you to take an action you did not want to take, and for this I think a player could justifiably conclude the game is unfair for expecting you to have the esoteric knowledge of exactly where dialog boxes can appear, how, what kind, and when or suffer for it.
The user interface is a meta element that exists for the player to use to interact with the game world, and I think meta elements such as this should be 100% able to be relied upon to faithfully carry out the intended instructions of the player. Once that line is crossed into the mechanics and properties of the simulated game objects, NPCs, or other players, then ignorance is punishable if it can be exploited by other players and I’d call it fair. Before crossing that line, though, I think it’s a design flaw that we should consider addressing.
the UI dont trick anyone into a dangerous decision xD its always the player who makes the decision !
we have a system then works pretty well and its extremly safe … and we have on the other hand only a few cases per week were ppl got cought and this is not worth the time to speak about it !
its a useless and stupid idea ! eve is no hello kitty where everything is so safe that you never can loose anything ! btw … you have agreed to lose your ship at any pvp combat as soon as you undock from a station !
and where is this impossible by got baitet into a duel ? oO it works maybe the first time and if youre stupid then also a second and a third time ! but then you know that you can simpli opt out duels … xD
It rarely happens maybe, but it’s pretty bad.
And again, this is often targeting new players.
If we want players to stick to the game and have fun, I believe these kind of exploits should be eliminated.
You go on a lowsec adventure and you lose your ship? That’s a great experience.
If instead you lose your ship because someone exploited the UI, that’s not fun, that’s not engaging, that does not make you enjoy the game.
then why do you create a problem where isnt one ? let them do what they do and everything is fine !
nobody knows who´s a “newbe” and who´s an player with 20 years experienxe … so your argument is incinsistent !
its not an exploit ! its simply doing 2 things wich requires your attention and ppl are lazy to read what information you got … lazy ppl have to lose ships more often !
why is it an exploit if you go to lowsec and then somebody kills you ? oO
its never fun if you lose a ship ! and still so many ppl all day long losing ships and they stay at this game …
If you have a sinkhole where people occasionally fall in and hurt themselves, you close it. You don’t leave it open saying “well, it’s only a few people, who cares?”.
My argument is that older player probably turn on the “Auto Reject Invitation” because they know about the setting and UI exploits, but new players do not know about this. So if everything you do while playing EVE is duel click baiting people on major trade hubs, you have good chances to hit new players.
Also let me tell you something personally. You are chasing me in every post I made here. It’s fine to have an opposing opinion and to criticize my ideas, however it’s your choice to be rude about it. No one here is forcing you to be this way, I am also not forcing my ideas on to you. I try to argue with you as politely as possible and with respect. Calling someone else stupid because you don’t like what they say it’s not respectful. So please be more civil.
then you have to create an eve online where you never can be fly through low sec, nullsec or WH space ! because if you dont know what happen you hurt yourself …
then you have to create an eve online where you only can fill your hauler with items wich arent reaching the worth of gankers … otherwise its blocked by the game …
then you have to create an eve online which NPC´s they cant kill you ! because you fittet a ship which isnt strong enough and this hurts yourself
then you have to create an eve online where data and relic sites dont have npcs inside or explode you after being insite of this site since [insert the correct number of seconds]
dude … youre trying to fix a problem which only effects 0,0X % of all players … thats a time waste !
and then they lern about this after they die the first time oO wow … you could have lern something if you do something ! its crazy ■■■■ man …
no ! you only have a high chance to get one of the lazy ppl who never read any text ! nobody said this is a new player ! its only your opinion that its a new player !
i just answered you ! is this now also a problem ? should CCP create a button that nobody can answer you anymore ?
but you bring up an idea and i argue against it because its not logical … you are creating a problem and want to fix it … it doesnt hurt the game if ppl die … it doesnt hurt the ppl if they would read and then react
and now only as an example youre a lazy person too …
your orca got killed by one dude ! you killed him about 30 mins before i bet he tryed to suspect bait or getting you into a duel !
but after you killed him, with another dude, he came back and do the same again and then YOU died …
there were so easy fixes which you could do but instead you blame the game and CCP … youre one of the 0,0X % of all players who got cought ! Sonia Harkonen
The game does alert you by default when you are taking a gate to low or null sec.
Not sure about wormholes though. That may not be the case, I don’t remember.
It was the same dude. It was a pretty elaborate scam. He and his fake suspect alt entered my public fleet and started a fight to bait me into helping. I did not know better, that’s on me for sure. But that’s the other thread about having better safety.
This one is about UI duel exploits. It happened to me, yes, I was lucky enough to not click Yes on the duel by mistake, so nothing happened, but other people may fall into it.
Yes it’s not many people, but this is about individuals enjoying the game we like, not about percentages.
Nothing you’ve said constitutes an objection to the proposal that the fleet invite dismiss button should not overlap with the dual acceptance button such that it can be clicked in error if it pops up at the moment you click to dismiss that fleet invitation, other than perhaps to suggest such misclicks are rare.
The difference between a mistake that can be owned by the player and one that isn’t is in the intention. If a player decides to accept a duel and is then punished for it, that’s on them. If a player decides to reject a fleet invitation and ends up accepting a duel instead because a button suddenly appears over the one they meant to click, I blame the UI for that.
A duel is not a critical thing that needs to be acted upon at the very instant it’s issued. The invitation does not have to pop up immediately over all other windows. It can appear at the bottom of the notification window stack instead of at the top. It could require a long press to agree to.
The solution as it stands today is to turn on the option to auto reject all duels, and I find it less than ideal that the optimal solution is to completely ignore the dueling aspect of the game for fear you may accidentally click accept when you didn’t intend to because other people in the game are actively trying to get you to click this button by mistake. I can only read this advice as “Turn off this game feature because the UI is bad.”
EVE will quickly help you develop a heightened sense of paranoia. But it’s not really paranoia, because everyone is trying to scam, kill or otherwise take advantage of you.
But I do agree with the points that EVE tends to “throw you into the deep end”; it’s only when you’ve drowned is a life preserver finally thrown in (not by CCP but by the various articles out there on how to avoid being baited, scammed and ganked - along with “unf***ing the UI”).
Yes that is true and I agree with you it would be the best option, rather than blocking duel invites by default, de-facto hiding this feature from new players.
However I think it depends on the screen resolution and things like that, so from the UI perspective it may be complex to fix it and prevent overlapping, but I honestly don’t know, maybe it’s not so hard to implement for the developers and it would indeed be great.
I also love the long-press idea you mentioned. That would also prevent mistakes and it’s indeed a simple solution too.
the fact that this dude come to you TWICE ! should be warn you … he did it TWICE this should get you some lernings … he did it TWICE so you know the second time what you could do … but you decide to be lazy and interact with ppl outside of a chat in a combatant way … so NO ! CCP should not change any system that only could be dismissed by not being lazy or stupid !
if you read “fleet invite” then you klick on the fleet window … if you dont be to fast and then see the duel window popping up then easy decline the duel oO its not that hard ! dont be to lazy to take youre time to read !
its still not CCP´s fault … read what the popup said to you and then if something changed read it again …
you are creating a major game problem but its exactly the opposite … its a very rare and only playerbased problem … maybe you should inform ppl instead of creating threads in forums to cry that you got killed by your own lazyness oO
nobody is hiding any feature … oO new player could inform theirself what could happen and how they can prevent it ! if they dont do it then why ? RIGHT → lazyness ! its all about lazyness … if you stop beeing lazy and start inform you then nobody can hurts you still if you going streight to an action which cost you a ship !
and btw … every window in eve you can move wherever you want … i´m sure you can move such popup windows also wherever you want and tada … no overlaping anymore !