Production of T1 variants

Hello,

I’m new to eve, but I did run some manufacturing and research jobs during the last weeks. I know in principal how to invent T2 stuff. But what I couldn’t find out is, how to manufacture specific T1 variants. For example the 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive looks much more interesting with regard to transaction volumes and margins than the standard T1 5MN Microwarpdrive. How could i produce these variants? I couldn’t find any BPs nor do i know a way how to invent them.

Thank you in advance,
Marc

t1 variants (“meta”) are not built, they are looted from npcs wrecks

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This.

The ability to manufacture meta variants of T1 modules is buried in the CCP backlog. It’s available for capital modules but, they need to complete module tiercide before they can roll it out for subcap modules. They’ve been working on this for 4 years if I remember correctly but the project keeps getting bumped.

The manufacturing area in the market has a section for Named Components. The expectation is that these will drop as loot instead of the modules and will be used to manufacture the modules.

If you want this to be higher priority let the industrialists on the CSM know (@Steve_Ronuken or @Dunk_Dinkle) and they can let CCP know there are those of us who think this would be a great addition to industrial gameplay - particularly for newer players since it likely won’t require any of the science skills. Bring some interns in to work on the tiercide!

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It definitely would be a great addition for industrials. ATM many meta items are cheaper than the M0 because M0 needs to be crafted (so cost > craft items) and Mx can only be reprocessed (so cost > craft items /2 )

However production of meta items through ratting is also a specific niche product, which ensure a small part of value in the activity. eg restrained/compact MSE, compact ballistic, etc can be worth more than T2.

So it may be difficult to add meta variant in industry without removing the specific ratting value (which is bad because removing activity products dumbs down the game by making all activities look the same).

Cap modules need both M0 and specific exploration data items, eg “y-t8 compact 50000MN” needs “compact electronics”, “compact conductors” and “compact compounds” - restrained 50000MN need the “restrained” items, enduring needs the enduring.

Making all the meta value need data sites items would also increase the value of data sites, which would be a good thing.

maybe making specific M0 item, eg “50mn incrustator”, required for production and also dropping fom rats would be a good idea. eg a rat that drops a 50mn would instead drop both a 50MN and a 50mn incrustrator.

It’s a change I’d like to see, yes.

It’s, to put it delicately, quite a lot of work, so I wouldn’t expect to see it soon. Not the easiest sell.

Mostly because it’d need a bunch of stuff to be changed and created. And the value of the change can be a trifle difficult to sell.

In most cases, T2 beats Meta. Which means that Meta has to be cheaper than T2 to be considered. So increasing the value of sites may be a pipe dream.

But I’d still like to see the change.

  • Introduction of a way to create them. BPCs? BPOs? Some other kind of invention?
  • Introduction of new meta materials.
  • Change to all the drop tables to use the meta materials, rather than the items.

All of those are pretty work intensive.

why not use the cap system already present ?

tiericide ???

yeah that’s a lot of work.

It’s just for balancing the changes in drops, and coming up with the material compositions for all the new build options.

cap system?

caps already require bpos to build the meta variants.

so you build M0 with M0 BP, then you need the meta BP to build the meta variant, which requires a M0 module, plus compact/enduring/etc [electronic|conductors|compounds]

Imgur
(seems there is an issue with the site …)

ahh, cool. Yes. That was an option I was bearing in mind.

So you need someone to come up with a blueprint for every meta module, with an appropriate amount of the materials in it. Along with making sure appropriate numbers drop.

I’m not saying it’s hard. I’m just saying it’s a bunch of work.

I miss the days when CCP had ambitious goals to undertake challenges even though they would be a bunch of work.

I was super hyped when CCP announced this system for Capital meta/faction modules. They mentioned 3 years ago back at Fanfest 2016 that they had a dream to roll out the Capital Meta Module system expanded to all of the Subcapital modules as well.

Timestamped video for reference.

I’m not saying it won’t happen.
It’s just a bunch of work. Work which would delay other things. Things which are, tbh, probably more important.

This is work which takes game designer time, more than anything else. And they’re a more limited resource.

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a lot of which can be automated by making correct models.

Take all the bp that are seeded for T1 items
if there is a compact variation, make the bp for compact ; same for precise, restrained, enduring, ample, scoped.

Of course it needs the tiericide to be complete before.

Yup. Those take some time to do.

If this does happen though, look closely at the Trig meta weapons to make sure we don’t replicate that mistake.

C’mon now, lets be honest, there are a lot of things that have just been left to rot on the vine, sure there’s a chance this will get done, just like there’s a chance they’ll finish tiericide and the multitude of other things they’ve started, and have never finished… but lets not hold our breath.

This is also from the group that, at least since I started, have had the catch cry of “legacy code, nobody knows how it works”… heaven forbid they might have to learn something new.

This would seem to imply they have a game designer (at least one)… are you able to say what they might be working on currently, just so we have some idea? It is good to know, however, they have a crack team of skin designers cranking out them skins!

As may be obvious from my tone I have lost all confidence in CCPs ability to put out anything complete, or to finish anything they start… and I guess that’s because I’m no longer their target market.

Regards,
Cypr3ss.

Hello,

thx to all of you for your help and the discussion.
So what you are saying is, that CCP will not pick up this requirement by itself. We need some ‘selling points’: One of the strongest selling point usually is revenue. So if we came up with a suggestion, by which CCP could earn some more money, e.g. by selling additional PLEX or converting alpha to omega, this would certainly help.
Marc

I would love to have meta BPCs in the game.

Previous to being on the CSM I advocated this to the design team.

My idea was having a chance when an T2 invention job fails that a randomized meta BPC of that item be created. So if your 5MN Microwarpdrive II invention failed, maybe chance that a 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive of various ME/TE drops out. Or the enduring or restrained versions.

No traction yet, but I hear you.

Nice idea! Ididn’t think of that.

Wow. That would be a really smart solution. I like it.