My post today is about project discovery and how I feel it is very unfair that just because I don’t have a certain number of skill points I can’t level up anymore in the project. I almost feel as if this is punishing new players for being new and that the new players definitely need the rewards a lot more than well established people.
Train more skills
You still get the isk.
IMO that’s worth more than the level rewards.
More Alpha entitlement, sigh…
IIRC, This is to help fight botting via disposable new accounts.
How exactly is this “alpha entitlement”? If someone was omega the same issue would persist. This is an issue about new players regardless of whether or not they are omega or not.
Fair enough but surely there is a better way of handling this? I’ve been active doing plenty of other activities which a botted disposable account would not do.
Get out in space. Come back to Project Discovery later.
Eh, no. Once you level up to get the Marshal BPC, those level rewards suddenly got worth a lot more.
Yeah. It sucks. However it protects Eve Online from having someone have a ton of Alpha accounts and getting Marshal BPCs. Does it suck? Yeah. But I frankly prefer that CCP error on the side of caution when it comes to giving Alpha accounts more.
If you’re an Omega account, I would agree with you more. On the other hand, who knows how long this Project Discovery is going to sit around. On my alpha, I got stopped because of lack of skill points. I waited a few months (making sure to get my login reward everyday) and I leveled up enough to get some more levels of Project Discovery unlocked.
This has nothing to do with if you are an alpha or an omega account. The restriction is entirely based on the number of skill points you have. This punishes new players, regardless of their paying status. And what is wrong with new people getting BPs which can help them get started on their eve adventure? You can only get the reward once and it has a limited number of runs (if I remember correctly). What they are basically saying currently is, hey if you’ve been playing a lot you can get this thing that you probably don’t really need, but if you’re new, screw you - you get nothing!
I believe feeling like the company cares about new people is a big factor in player retention. This to a new player (speaking from experience), just feels like a big middle finger to you for being new to the game, enough so that I emailed the support who suggested I posted here and honestly the complete lack of empathy from the obviously well established players here is rather off putting… Saying things like “WeLl GeT OmEgA” completely neglecting this will have 0 impact on the issue at hand.
Fortunately the good folks in the in game rookie help channel are a lot more understanding and supportive of new players and their concerns, frankly they stopped me from giving up and helped me get to where I can enjoy the game! It’s little things like, when I first started and lost about 6 million worth of ship/cargo in low sec twice, they told me about how dangerous low sec is and even gave me the money back so I wasn’t bankrupt (yes 6M is a huge deal to someone just starting) and linked useful pages!
Contrast them with here where people evidently just don’t seem to care/understand the concerns of new players…
It is not. It is a middle finger to the cheaters who try to abuse the citizen science program and crash the player driven market, devaluing all the work real players put into the game. It also encourages new players to get out and play, not simply sit in a station grinding out Project Discovery levels. A low SP character cannot use a Marshal BPC, the only thing they could possibly do with it would be sell it, so it is perfectly reasonable to protect the market against abuse by using SP as a barrier. You can always use the ISK you earn from doing Project Discovery to buy injectors and unlock more levels, after all.
Are you sure? The code could allow omega accounts to do more per skill point level. So, yes: type of account could matter.
Because it could damage the in-game economy. CCP wants to keep Marshals rare. If any Alpha account could get them, the market could see an significant increase in them… which is a problem.
I notice how you haven’t mentioned if your account is alpha or omega yet. And judging by certain comments, I’m going to assume your alpha.
And thus: no, what they are saying is that we hope you’ve enjoyed your free experience here on Eve Online and if your would like to experience everything Eve has to offer, you need to pay for the game…
Pretty damn simple.
“They want to keep marshals rare”, newsflash, anyone with 1M skillpoints can get the blueprint be they alpha or omega… Once again side stepping the issue… It’s “pretty damn simple”. I can see it clearly now, you people at the CSM don’t actually give a ■■■■ about new players… Frankly if my first interaction with the community was with people like you I would have quit, fortunately I’ve met decent people both through my corp and rookie help…
But so many other barriers could be used, like what other activity has been logged on the account? Activity which would no be present on a bot abusing it. Using the isk to buy enough injectors to get 1M points seem rather absurd, that is a huge cost! This isn’t protecting the market, it’s closing off opportunities to players, not based on if they are subscribed or not, simply how long they have been in the game.
Okay… fine, let’s split hairs. There are very few ways to produce (not buy) a Marshal BPC. You can get one through Project Discovery (which is what we are discussing) and through refer-a-friend rewards. The rewards comes from getting 40 refer-a-friend giveaways to go Omega. The key part of that is “Omega”, CCP makes money.
So, no, I’m not side stepping the issue. You want access to a portion of a subscription game that the developers want you to pay for. That’s how the “free to play” advertisement model works. They give you a portion of the game so you can experience the game in hopes you’ll subscribe.
You’re sidestepping that major point: alpha accounts exist to advertise the game and to get people to subscribe and CCP blocks activities because very few people will pay for a game they can fully play for free.
Actually, I do quite a bit. I talk to new players regularly trying to answer their question and explain how to get better at what they want to do in Eve.
This is an ad hominen argument fallacy. You’re attacking me instead of my argument. And there is a reason for that…
I care a great deal about Eve, but I also know this game isn’t going to survive without players paying to play. So, yes, I do support limiting alpha accounts because new players won’t matter if there is no game…
If I bought omega tomorrow, would I be able to get the reward? NO. If someone is alpha but has been playing for a while and has 1M skillpoints can they? YES.
I don’t understand why you keep trying to bring this back to omega…
“This is an ad hominen argument fallacy” not true, I addressed your point then raised my frustration at the people here and said, very truthfully that if you lot were the first people I interacted with I would have just quit. I am tempted to message support to suggest they don’t send new players here in future, because frankly it does feel like you don’t really care, and instead of addressing the concern, I get a constant vomit of “but omega”.
I was planning on getting omega anyway but try use a bit of empathy and see how for someone just starting - you acknowledge this is just a trial version (I always accepted I would eventually get omega) and yet even with a subscription there are things you wont be able to do literally just because you are new… How does that make you feel? Well it bugged me certainly, enough to complain to support who sent me here. Then imagine the people here just constantly say pfft you’re just an alpha. What does that do to your perception of the community?.. Well as I’ve said, fortunately you aren’t the only people I’ve interacted with…
And you can train 1M skill points for free in about 45 days. Is that really such a horrible thing to need to wait a little bit and actually experience the game before accessing later stages of content? This really is no different from having to train skills to fly certain ships - if you don’t want to wait, you pay ISK to other players (or give CCP real money) for acceleration of your skill acquisition.
I’m going to address this first. Yes, it was an ad hominen argument fallacy. Let’s be clear, you said:
This is a direct attack on the other people in the conversation, not an attack on their argument. Its an ad hominem argument fallacy because of that very nature.
Also, parents still care about their kids when they tell them they can’t have the toy or snack they want so very much. So, it’s very much a personal attack.
Because that’s our entire argument: portions of this game are locked away because CCP wants you to subscribe and pay for playing this game; alphas were meant as an advertising tool. This is why you can’t open an omega and alpha account at the same time through the game launcher.
Furthermore, omega is very important to this discussion and I’ll explain why while responding to more of your comments.
I’ll concede you’re technically right; however, the skill point restriction affects alphas much more than omega. Omega learn skills at twice the speed of alphas. Omega, unlike alphas, can learn skills after they hit the 5 million skill point value. And so you don’t try to split hairs: learning means acquiring skills via the skill queue.
Due to both of these factors, the skill point restriction on Project Discovery becomes almost a non-factor.
Now, I’ll go back to why omega is so important: because without subscriptions, Eve Online doesn’t exist anymore. And before you attempt to counter with buying PLEX to take your account Omega, using PLEX to “pay” for your subscription means that someone else is basically paying (with real money) for your subscription.
Feel free. It’s not going to do anything, but feel free. Many of the people here will help players (myself included), but just because you want something doesn’t mean you automatically get it. Again, alpha accounts are made to be advertisements and parts of the game will be blocked because you aren’t paying for the game.
The reason you’re getting “a constant vomit” is because you don’t want to acknowledge the argument those people have been making… which I’ll be making for a third time in this very post: alpha accounts are advertisements and portions of the game will not be available to you until you subscribe.
My wife and two friends of mine just started playing Eve in the last year and a half; I’m well aware of how hard starting Eve is. This is an appeal to emotion argument fallacy… stick to facts, evidence, and logic, you’ll get further.
I think I’ve explained how it makes me feel: it’s a good business model. It let’s people try Eve without having to pay for it. Eve is a very niche game and I think allowing people to see some of the potential is a great idea. After all, no game appeals to every gamer.
You can dislike the model all you want. It doesn’t change the fact that (for the fourth or fifth time on this post) alpha accounts were meant to be advertisements with a lot of the game locked behind a paid subscription wall.
The only reason your status as an alpha matters is because… alphas we’re meant as a way to advertisement Eve Online with a lot of the game behind a paid subscription wall…
My perception of the community: if you want to be fully involved in the game, you need to put some skin into it because…
Alpha accounts were meant as a way to advertise Eve Online with a lot of the game’s features locked behind a paid subscription wall.
Now, why do you think you should have as much as access to Project Discovery as I do when I pay for a subscription? Your argument that you should have access to it gives us the perception you feel entitled to get something for free that we pay for. Furthermore, while I pay to play this game and thus help keep it running, you are just enjoying a free advertisement… on paying subscribers’ money… and then you try to appeal to our emotions talking about empathy…
You know what, you’ve conceded the main point, this has nothing to do with subscriptions only time played. If I was an omega account right now, I would post the same issue, then what would you say?.. Your whole argument is a complete aside from the main point. This is not awarded based on subscription status only time in game, and sure you can get that time faster as omega - Im not complaining about that either. Any alpha account that is older can get this reward but a brand new omega couldn’t… I’m done with this you are just going around in circles.