Project Nova Survey feedback


(Collin Enderasom) #1

Hello dear Community,

first of all I’d like to say that if anyone knows a more suitable place to post this please let me know, but with that disclaimer said I’d like to get right into it.

I’m really happy to hear that CCP is still working on Project Nova, but I’d like to add some more depth to the level of feedback that I gave in the survey, because I think that otherwise the gathered data might be a bit distorted and false conclusions might be drawn from the survey as well as I’d like to point out some ambiguity in the survey which made it kinda hard to answer some of the questions.

I will try to go through my concerns in order of when they were asked in the survey.

So to begin with it, I’d like to clarify something about what it means for me to play eve actively. Playing EVE means for me to actively move my ship around in space and be engaged in combat or having the intention of engaging in combat or managing your industry/market orders. The only real time when I’m not ‘actively’ playing EVE would be when I’m mining or sitting on a wormhole to scout for people. What I usually do in the meantime is learning for university or just talking with people over comms. I want to add here that talking with my corp mates and also having these ‘less active’ parts in the game really makes the game more relaxing so I really want to complain about them. Now as to why I’m usually not playing EVE: As a wormholer I live in a really almost family-like structure and the limit of connections means that you have to be considerate of your corp members who may have to haul something through a static at the moment or need to farm sites to make isk again or maybe I myself would like to run sites while someone else is out for PvP. So I generally don’t play EVE while still being on comms when there is some downtime(like shortly before a fleet-up, holes are getting rolled, etc.). In these times I like to play virtually any other game that allows me to close it again reasonably fast without having to deal with major repercussions.
To give an example here: I like to play i.e. Playerunknown’s Battleground or War Thunder at these times because I can basically just close the game and when I get back there is no disadvantage for me to have done so. The oppposite of that would be League of Legends where it will give me a timer that won’t allow me to join another game if I had left the previous one which eventually would lead to me getting a ban for maybe up to a week, which is the reason why I’d never play it at times like I just described. So much to the first point that I wanted to explain.

But wait there’s more!

Did you play Dust 514? No, I didn’t. Why? Apparently not of interest. But would I have wanted to play it? Bloody yes. The only reason I haven’t played it was because it was released on PlayStation and not on PC or XBOX which at that point I still played fairly regularly(my PC wasn’t that good back then).

How important is the map size to you in a FPS? Well, it’s very important in my opinion, does that mean it has to be big as some may think that this is what’s implied here? No, I don’t think so. Map Size is important because you don’t want to be running around as an infantry man for 20 minutes on a battlefield where there are no players and then getting sniped from god knows where, neither would I want to get into a tank drive for 5 seconds out of my spawn and get blown up over and over again because the map is so small that the enemy team pushed all the way up and is now spawncamping. So as a conclusion, a map has to be just the RIGHT size. As for that I wish your dev team a lot of fun ding that as it isn’t only a somewhat subjective matter but also a damn hard one to get it right without disturbing immersion or creating other problems while trying to fix another on the map.

Now to my second last point for this topic. How important is it that Project Nova is connected to EVE Online. Boy that’s a tough nut in my opinion as there are multiple layers to this question of which I’d like to elaborate on at least two and that would be: It should feel like EVE but it doesn’t have to be connected to EVE. To go into deeper depth here as to what I want to say is that the EVE players who are currently playing EVE want to see that the game really is set in New Eden. How can this be achieved? Well I guess through multiple means but I guess the most obvious way I thought about would be missions that are set in some of the most well known parts of EVE history. Whether it would be the fight between Gallente or Caldari in their homesystem or the Minmatar uprising(that would also kind of give the opportunity to show ‘older’ tech which could be used as starter gear in the multiplayer, but I’m getting off track here). As for the second part ‘it doesn’t have to be connected to EVE’, means that the game should be fun to play without needing EVE players to intervene in the game or buying stuff in the game with ISK from EVE or anything like that. The game needs to work as a game on it’s own first.

There’s a lot more stuff I could go on about, but the chances of anyone actually going through this wall of text I just fabricated are already slim as it is right now, which means I’d lie to come to my final point.
And that point honestly could be seen as a continuation of my point above. Project Nova needs to be fun as a game without relying on EVE as the big brother but needs to be able to attract interest from players who aren’t EVE players already.

P.S.: Maybe Microsoft might be interested in promoting the game too as they are (hopefully) looking for new good games that will make their portfolio stronger and more competitive.

P.P.S.: I hope that anyone who finds this topic interesting can also leave some constructive critique here and maybe add sth new here(Or just bash me for wasting your time and tell me how every point I made is utter b*****it)


(Umbre Fallenstar) #2

I agree (but didn’t get that survey you speak of :frowning: ) otherwise I would say that contacting microsoft is taking the risk to see Nova becoming an X-Box exclusive and THAT would do the same thing to nova than PS4 did to dust.

But seeing the portage of valkyries out of VR i think that CCP learned that lesson ^^

On the link between EvE and nova, I think that the link should exist but not be an essential part of the game. So that a lone gamer not playing in a corporation should not feel “left on the side”.

Also on the interaction, it should be a concerted effort from both side (nova AND eve) and why not, provide content for EvE players (because on dust it was rather boring to help someone bombarding the planet).

For example, a call for “player” bombardment should start a mission in the agency where player can “free fight” around the beacon in space, In this way both side of the game will have content with one action.
Furthermore it would add a “feel” of a connection when,for example, form a nova player POV, the bombing start then stop, then restart a few minutes later.
and to make the bombing interresting there should be 2 different bombing in nova, one, powerful but limited and with a big cool down (like in many shooters actually) and one clearly more powerful but which need to be player made, therefore more random in hits and regularity.

any way, a huge thumb up for nova \o/


(Collin Enderasom) #3

Well, Microsoft games can now be played on both XBOX and PC(no matter for which system you bought it) so technically they wouldn’t lose anything as they are currently developing it for PC exclusively(well, nevermind the fact they’d have to port it to the XBOX Platform but that might be not too bad if Microsoft was to help them out on this)


(Umbre Fallenstar) #4

humm, in fact games on microsoft games are viewable on all plateforms, but are not playable on all, for example, “Fable legend” is disponible only on PC but appear in the market on windows phone too


(Nana Skalski) #5

Haha, they work so long on the game and just now put something like:

Name one thing that would have been the largest improvement to DUST 514 in your opinion.

Why do I have this feeling that its WoD again? :thinking:

Back then it was White Wolf plus CCP, now its Sumo Digital plus CCP? :thinking:
Management did not change? I see it all in black colors unfortunately.
Anybody remembers Project Legion?


(Umbre Fallenstar) #6

Yes, CCP failed at projects before and what?
I largely prefer a company like CCP who at least TRY to do news things than a Blizzard company who only take what work elsewhere and never innovate :confused:


(Nana Skalski) #7

They should just read this.


(Umbre Fallenstar) #8

the point being?
you already stated that you don’t trust CCP ^^"
but being negative is not helpfull
(neither is blind acceptance)


(Nana Skalski) #9

I am helpfull, just look what I posted just right above your post. What to improve, where to look for improvements. Why CCP cant understand that? In Valkyrie the matchmaking was bad as in Dust 514, so now they want our oppinion? It did not changed thru all those years…

That is only making me lose more hope when I see they ask questions and release surveys like that just now. :pensive:


(Dark Engraver) #10

Did the survey hopefully CCP gets some decent metrics for their new project.


(Veskin Sentinel) #11

Still haven’t received the survey, but I feel it is appropriate to point out to another article from the same blog that was linked above, where a bunch of bloggers (including me) gave some feedback and ideas about Project Nova and what we think will make it successful.

Overall I am very happy that CCP is asking for our opinions. That means that they are committed to do it right. I wouldn’t recommend bitterness and unforgiving behavior towards our devs, because it is natural to make mistakes, especially with massive games of this sort, with so many things that need to be considered in terms of balance and gameplay.

I am optimistic and look forward to see what follows. :rocket: :sun_with_face: :heart:


(Nana Skalski) #12

It is also natural to make the same mistakes over and over again.

It isnt advisable of course.


(Tipa Riot) #13

For me its the thing, that I only play EvE … for reasons, because things matter in a single shard persistent universe. There are enough things I can do in New Eden at any time, so Nova has to compete with the time spend in EvE. If Nova connects to New Eden the same way as EvE does, within a shared economy, just from a different perspective, I would totally spend time with it. Else I’m unsure …


(Veskin Sentinel) #14

This video doesn’t really help with finding a solution. When it comes to mistakes, we should all learn from the past and present altogether and strive to find a solution.

And if you believe that CCP will make the same mistakes and not learn from them, then why do you bother to post bitterness over and over again? I don’t see how this can improve the discussion.

We’re here to improve the game with feedback and any way we can do. Constructive criticism is good, but if you just dismiss them and say they will fail again, why bother to continuously say it? Is it worth your time?


(Nana Skalski) #15

I dont have to believe, I witnessed it. With Valkyrie and Dust 514 matchmaking.

I have seen them releasing features and then not improving them, because “nobody uses them”.

If they want to learn anything, they should just read this:


(Veskin Sentinel) #16

Some good points in this article. Thanks for sharing.

Here are some articles about what we know about Project Nova so far.

http://biomassed.net/tag/project-nova/


(mkint) #17

Didn’t get the survey, don’t understand the point of the survey.

FPS shooters have been a thing for, how long? 25 years? They are well researched, the technology is extremely mature. If they want the game to be fun, they have sufficient information, a new data point (especially one apparently lacking objectivity, full of leading poorly worded questions) won’t suddenly magically make anybody good at making games.

It’s simple. Assuming it’s F2P, I’ll try it. If it’s not fun, I’ll delete it and won’t come back. I don’t play games based on “potential.” Describing anything with that word just means “it sucks, but I wish it didn’t.” Or more succinctly “this game has potential” means “this game sucks.” So, if you (devs) find yourselves making excuses “well some day we plan on…” blah blah blah, you failed. Make the game fun. Leave room to add more fun things (bad CCP habit is painting yourselves into a corner where it becomes impossible to add the things you say you want to, and it’s always exciting to see what new excuses you’ll come up with for why you can’t.) But if the game isn’t fun on day 1, you failed. If the game ever stops being fun because you change the game to align with your “vision” instead of what’s actually fun, you failed.

CCP frequently fails because they sacrifice ambition for hubris. You want the game to not suck, start with fixing that first. Maybe hire a momento mori to follow the boss around.


(Dantelion Shinoni) #18

Really? Well then explain how comes despite the millions and considerable efforts of the likes of CoD, Titanfall, LawBreakers (can’t get more innovative and fun than playing with gravity) and other big names, the biggest name of the genre is a game based on a 2 decades old gameplay, rudimentary to say the least, and with hardly anything imaginative to it?

As much as you want it, making it “fun” is not that freaking easy, so them asking for insight is hardly a bad move, especially if they want the thing to make it.

Back to the matter at hand.
This game will need EVE integration if it is to be a success. The reason is simple, this is your best selling point by far, even to people who don’t play EVE.
EVE has a cultural footprint out there, even the most Joe Schmoe of gamers has heard about BR5RB and its likes. Many are interested in this universe but are intimidated by the spreadsheets and hardcore status of the game, but they would be interested in being a part of that story, “The greatest game that I will never play”.

Offering the opportunity to participate in that story through some as visceral and accessible as a FPS shooter is your selling point.

Else it will be just FPS#1326, something that will have some hype for some time before the next CoD is announced (and fail again at developing an esport scene against CS:GO). If that is what you want, good, you will make some short-term dough for a month at best.

Making a FPS that plays well is easy enough, get the Dust assets and get a EVE vibe and done.
The real deal will be to make the game stand out where others have tried to be polished, innovative, and experimental… And that only the EVE connection will do.


(Terranid Meester) #19

No mention of Titanfall 2 in the games we have played?

Criminal.


(mkint) #20

Well, they don’t have a great track record of following through on player feedback, and player feedback doesn’t have a great track record of being any good. So yeah, a survey might be completely frivolous. Or just a marketing gimmick if they were particularly clever.

“Fun” is pretty simple. Like you said, the gameplay itself is pretty well an established science, they can throw out a profitable successful disposable shooter easily with a simple re-skin. Throw in a gimmick to get attention. Add a sense of meaning for longevity.

Miss any of those 3 pillars and you’ve got nothing. With Dust, the big gimmick was the EVE connection, though the loadout system was also a gimmick, plus a few gameplay gimmicks. I never played it but it sounded like they had core problems with fun. And I’m not sure they ever nailed the sense of purpose. I guess Dust was gimmicky without being fun or meaningful?

With Nova, yeah it needs to be fun. Making the EVE connection a gimmick would be a waste of an opportunity… it already has the EVE theme gimmick, and a dust-like loadout system would be a good gimmick as well. If they don’t have any other way of adding meaning then they absolutely need the EVE connection and they need to make it actually meaningful and not a gimmick. A lot of games try to add meaning through RPG elements, which works as long as it’s not just a gimmick, and a real sense of progression can add a whole lot of meaning. A slowly revealed mysterious story adds meaning, as does regular (weekly) patches.

I really don’t expect CCP to read this thread, much less take it seriously. It’s more interesting for theory and prediction. How’s CCP gonna screw it up this time. :stuck_out_tongue: