And how do you plan on making good on that guarantee?
If ganking is so boring, why am I still ganking?
I think it’s a fun game, how many miners can I kill before the antigankers stop me? I seem to be doing pretty good!
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Some people try to invalidate other people’s forms of enjoyment on internet forums too.
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ROFL. Now who doesn’t understand math?
Sure it is bro. Sure it is 
What just makes me cackle is he really thinks he has a gotcha with that. But EVE is literally a sandbox. Literally nothing says you have to be locked into one role forever LOL.
Of course I have my theories as to why he thinks that way
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I don’t know just exactly how much extra yield that third low slot mining upgrade gives. I can’t imagine its a huge amount…and it is really only that extra amount the the miner gets over and above what they’d get with a fully tanked fit including damage control. So they are risking their ship for an extra yield of probably 5% or something.
If one supposes they are mining 10m ISK an hour…that 5% is 500K. So they would have to mine for 120 hours for that extra yield to pay for a new barge. That’s like 10 hours a day for 12 days, or 5 hours a day for 24 days. And they have to not get ganked at all in those 24 days !
So, looked at in that perspective, yield tanking is a complete waste of time. Some may argue that the gankers are gonna get the barge anyway, but it would be silly to make it easier for them.
I get board quickly. And that’s the thing I love about this game. When I get board with a particular activity, I move onto another. One day I might be ganking. The next, robbing ESS. Then diving into wormholes. Sometimes I’ll even mine in low sec.
Ninja salvage/loot mission runners, to popping into starter systems to help out the newbros.
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Au contraire…I’ll have fleet ganking honed to a fine art within a few weeks, then ( as AO10 is only allowed to gank in Lonetrek ) I’ll set up another new alt for solo ganking as and where I want. You’ll be playing Scrabble in some old people’s home long before I get bored of any of Eve.
Yeah, I noticed this too. Let’s stop and consider what age group of Eve Online player is most likely going to try new things. And highly at risk of failing at it.
“Think of the newbies”… It rings hollow.
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Nah bro You know why my point slays yours
I dunno. Maybe drop some of your gank alts so we can compare
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Depends on the role/roles being played.
In the ganking I’ve done to be across what gets talked about in the forum:
- solo ganking: straight forward, low value and low (no) profit targets
- fleet ganking as a fleet member: easy, but impressive what others are doing to organise and prep for enough ganks to keep the fleet fun
- fleet ganking as the FC/organiser: this is pretty high level play. If you are doing everything from base logistics, scouts, warpins, FC, looting and running a couple of alts in the gank fleet as well, there’s a lot to do.
So if Altara is getting more into aspects of the third approach, it takes a bit to master it all, and is a lot of fun to pick up, especially if the net result is a fleet that everyone enjoys being in.
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The thing that’s so highly amusing is Lucas not noticing how he’s undoing his own position with all his jibes at people. The more he makes out everything is soooo easy a 1 day old noob could do it in their sleep, the less leg he has to stand on in trying to be the white knight for all those poor, helpless, noobs for whom everything is sooo hard.
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How are you going to keep me from abusing this and just recycling invulnerable Alpha accounts for hauling my stuff around?
Are new pilots going to learn to avoid being ganked when they are invulnerable to being ganked? (I doubt it.)
These proposed fixes always look like they are going to cause far more problems for the game than ganking itself. I support educating new players about ganking, which is something that almost none of these proposals ever have.
The answer to this is education, not nerfing game play. EvE traditionally has had the “toss him into the deep side of the pool” attitude to education. If this is causing enough turnover of new bros that it is a problem, we (CCP) needs to find more ways to educate new bros on how to fly.
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You really don’t understand the underlying context of counter play.
If you did you would understand that he most effective means of counter play is to counter the other player before the battle even begins. You need to read either Sun Tzu, or Machiavelli’s “art of War” (either book of the same title may help you understand the context of maneuver and warfare.
Please bro, leant the context and meaning of these words before you embarrass yourself.
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I agree with you, the newbie safety would be a temporary measure till tutorials that at least include the common bullet points of how to Fly Safe from gankers. I thought i mentioned about wanting to get the tutorial/career agents to involve the player in ganking, like simulate a gank and get the player involved on the ganking side, then as the mission is about to finish you get ganked by NPCs symulating gankers, trash talk and all or something that introduces them to that aspect of the game. the last time i played the new player experience they just mentioned how other players can mess with you like you can mes with them ect, but its severely lacking in details about PvP edge cases, like the suiced gank, suspect baiting, gate and undock canping, ect.
And the countdown to the removal of the 30day safety would be like an official event of some kind, maybe celebrating the progress of teaching newbies or something. The thing we can point to that lets players know highsec isn’t safe and those of us till there Fly Safe.
About the abuse of hauling, well i think it would be a small price to pay if we could fine tune player retention and get more data about players interaction with newbies. But now I’m curious about what you think would be worth making a new account to do some hauling?
But it would be a great experiment at least, CCP would be able to directly measure player retention if they had more time to learn about the game before getting ganked. We have had years of the control data, it’s not imposable to actually test this.
I’d love to hear about any ideas people have for interesting expansions to PvP, i think the emergent gameplay is great but getting stale and could be formalized to give us more to play around to form other metas and emergent gameplay.
Ahh, but if you understood the underlying context of the word “counterplay” you would realize that your definition is the lowest definition, while mine is the highest definition.
You definition relies on the use of “action” as in “an action another user is taking”, but as Lao Tzu demonstrated inaction is superior to action, and as Sun Tzu demonstrated the highest victory is the one that is one without battle. If you are more Western in your outlook, you can look to Machiavelli and be like the fox who can defend himself from the trap.
So as you see Lucas, this is not a matter of individual definitions, but of inferior context. Yours is the lowest, while mine is the highest in this case because I have taken to heart the teachings of the masters both East and West.
If you never learn from your mistakes Lucas, you will not advance. You need to be like a child as Lao Tzu has said, or learn the lesson of former President Ronald Regan and unlearn your knowledge that is not true.
You say you have read Sun Tzu and Machiavelli, and yet you seek the lowest form of victory, and always take the stance of the lion and never the fox? I hate to again question your veracity, but as you have demonstrated in the past, it is not to be relied on.
It is clear that you do not understand the context of competition or that of victory. Competition is exactly what victory is meant to eliminate. I do not think that you understand either Sun Tzu or Machiavelli. Disappointing for you who earlier cast dispersions on the people of my local that you are the one who shows himself to be so backwards, ignorant, and provincial.
An individual is always free to think for themselves, but before one breaks the rules, one should have a grasp of them, which you clearly do not.
I am just looking out for you Lucas. You have embarrassed yourself so often in these threads. I am under the impression you may not be able to afford purchasing your own copies of either master’s “Art or War”, or maybe more importantly “Tao Te Ching”, residing as you do in your subterranean abode sponsored by your seniors, but maybe there is a library in your location where you might be able to barrow these texts?
Most libraries in America will allow you to check out books without fee, useful in your impoverished conditions given your subterranean abode. I understand this is a common condition is Europe as well?
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The thing is off the top of my head I can think of many other abuses to this invulnerable 30 day period that people more devious than I could do.
What are you going to do about invulnerable players that go on sprees bumping people off belts, stealing their drones, or invulnerable accounts griefing freighters with endless bumping?
What are you going to do about invulnerable players sitting in belts used as warp in points for fleets of raiders?
What are you going to do about the cries against invulnerable accounts sitting in other people’s space giving intel about all the actions going on, noting the location of every mining op or where all the crappers have their capital ships. I can hear the gnashing of teeth over invulnerable new bros sitting every where spying on everything, being warp in beacons for covert op fleets every where.
What are you going to do about invulnerable new bros shadowing alliances fleets, giving unlimited intel, and being warp in points?
I really don’t think you have thought this out well at all.
As far as making a new account for some hauling, I do a lot of hauling, and it would be very coinvent for me if I could have a new pro account that I could just afk auto-pilot between Rens, Hek, Dodixie, and Jita. It would save me so much spouse agro to not be at my keyboard while moving things around that I guess it would increase my isk income by at least 50%.
You can have your own opinions, but you can’t have your own personal facts and definitions.
‘Counterplay’ is most commonly a term used in chess. If it was purely an attacking strategy then there would not be such well known chess openings as the ‘French defence’. There you go…a counterplay strategy with the word ‘defence’ in it.
There is also the ‘Sicilian defense’, the ‘Alekhine defense’, yada, yada, yada…all counterplay strategies !
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See Sun Tzu and Machiavelli, not me.
And yet here you are.
And yet you want to destroy other’s entertainment.
An yet you understand neither.
For one who does not know what they are talking about, lies, and casts dispersions continuously, you have a lot of pride.
There is different definitions for the same word in different fields, like in game design Counterplay has to do with the options an action enables for others. Like how undocking is the action that enables a lot of options for other people to respond to that. Expansive counterplay design focuses on increasing amounts of interesting opportunities, like undocking, or decloaking, while reductionist counterplay reduces the scope of interaction and narrows the play space so the value of different aspects already in play change, like getting scrammed, or bubbled.