Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank

Im joking mate. I know what you’re saying.

I tried foxhole and couldn’t get over the view and the shtty edge of screen meta. Gopd concept though.

Anyway i demand i see your supervisor now.

So everyone in Goons, Frat, PH are red, are you serious, I really think I talk to people that are clueless. So all those people who don’t gank pass through local so what does that tell me and others about your game knowledge?

Take this for an example:

Clueless to say this:

That was a surprise to us, but it was just after we wiped out an EOL Leshak fleet as an alliance so he obviously was nervous about that. But when does the truth ever matter to Destiny?

Getting on, no I caught him at a gate, and he did shoot back, but after I aggressed him, which is why there are no gate guns, do you even play this game?

That DST we waited him out for 6 hours, hunting in the real Eve way.

That Loki, earlier had killed an Astero linked to my coalition and there was two Loki’s. So a very good PvP player went in to nab one in the Phobus and I followed up with a cane and a logi , and those rats started on my logi which almost died, again shows how little you know.

Picking off Test stragglers who were in much greater numbers than us. Still my most recent PvP is not on Dracvlad.

I am talking about real PvP in that there is danger back from players, and your emotive reaction said it all.

I love it when you gankers make comments like that, makes you look sad and bitter and utterly clueless.

I had goons set to red on my mining chars back when I was mining. You’d be surprised how few nullsec goons you see randomly appear in your highsec system without any intent to pvp you. And even if, just align out just in case, and wait for them to leave local. No clue indeed, but about where the problem here is.

Okay, didn’t see you caught him. Still, you think there was any chance of him doing any kind of serious damage to you? Not really.

Seems like a waste of time when you can wait a fraction of that time and get a dst kill in highsec. But if you feel like wasting 6 hours of your time for one single kill because it makes you feel special, it’s honestly not my problem. I just think it’s funny.

We don’t need danger back from players, although it does happen as well, because we got concord which is way more OP than pretty much any player response could ever be, and certainly faster.

You remember when you told me about forum rules? Off-topic? Welcoming atmosphere? So, that’s welcoming for you. Seems you gave up on that really quickly.

Currently not, why would I? I quit roughly 3 months ago, though still follow it on discord, etc.
But I plan on coming back eventually, don’t worry.

Your observation is way different to me.

You sniffed at that but it was classic AG, kill him so he cannot kill someone else, but thanks for acknowledging it.

He went above and beyond to escape and as my coalition had killed one previously with a market hub, we thought it worthwhile.

But you go in with cheap ships expecting to lose it, bit different…

It was a bit clueless as an attack designed to belittle those PvP events. But you seem to be behaving more respectfully so less snark back from me…

Well it was just detailing what you missed on that event, the clue would have been no gate guns, based on how you misread it.

When you come back it will be good for Eve o7

While I still can’t wrap my head around how you manage to get 500 people to negative standing unless you mark every char on its own for whatever reason, you do you on this. And as I said, I don’t mind the limit being increased if it helps in rare cases.

We could get into the “is AG pvp” debate, but whatever. Just know that AG is literally shooting ships that can’t/don’t shoot back most of the time, and are already being chased by concord.

I mean, fair enough. It’s not about the time, it’s about sending a message. I mean, I’d put a fair amount of effort into killing someone I really want dead as well. Again, you do you, I would probably not see it as worth the effort, but since it’s not my time it’s not my problem.

Going in with cheap ships, expecting to lose them is literally all pvp except for “100% leet” pvp. Getting together a fleet of cheap cruisers or destroyers for example, and filamenting to null just to see what happens is fairly common pvp. Cheap ships, expecting to lose them. Some gank ships (Talosi, naods, bombers) are more expensive than that cheap cruiser a person decides to welp somewhere.
It’s just that ganking is 100% risk to our ship once we commit to a fight, would be stupid to go in with expensive ships. Basing the “quality” of pvp based on expected outcome and value of the ship just doesn’t make sense to me. Otherwise, anything below titans or at ships should be considered poor pvp, perhaps.

I’m doing my best to be respectfully, that’s how I work. The salt usually comes from the other side. (Except for after the ehp buff for barges, I gave some salt to that as well tbh)

ty o7

If you think that then continue to do so. There are plenty of AG players who lost ships to gankers that went for them, the gankers have guns and blow stuff up. The RR being a criminal act is a buff to gankers and a massive nerf to AF fleets.

I was doing other stuff, you can note the scout, and him then logging in. I just had a Arazu ready to decloak and get enough points on.

Not elite PvP just normal PvP

But losing to players is the aim…

But the rewards are how much?

There is a table in the OP’s statement that says it all.

I see more salt from gankers, as for the barge and Exhumer EHP increase, still pretty gankable.


That’s the best time, when antigankers are ganking content. Just that it isn’t that common. The average antiganker waits for a gank to happen, warps in at 70, activates a target painter or missile or something, waits for concord to kill the ganker, and pretends this is doing anything. Or pods empty ganker pods into the station they wanted to undock from anyways. I respect AG’s who get close enough to get into the line of fire, though.

So, the difference between “real” pvp and “our” pvp is how we lose our ships while shooting other players? Hm, seems a bit nitpicky, if you ask me. However, if you insist on this, I probably don’t care too much if you think I do real pvp or not.

Depends on who you are. Some make big money with it, others don’t. Look at Guybertini for example. Drops a talos on a standart barge if he can’t kill it otherwise. For him, it’s about the message, not the money.

Not nearly as easy, unfortunately. Need a lot more numbers now.

I like to use Sensor disruptors on the initial tackle ship if the character is -10, always a joy to watch the prey warp out and the gank fleet land with nothing to shoot. Though easily counted by using tags…

Whatever you want to say, I just used it as a clear distinction on using ships where managing active tanks and multiple targets that were shooting back actively. I did put in brackets not to react to it. What would be a safe way to describe that so you did not take it badly?

Fair enough.

Skiffs and Procurers are easier though.

@Dracvlad, @Aveve_Olerie

Get a room …

Maybe you can say that to Destiny at some point? Well played, well played… I think it was…

I’m just having some fun…Good idea about Destiny, but…

I’m too old school and can’t say that to a woman even if she’s just an avatar.

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So you’re saying you’d pay for a film labelled ‘2 dudes 1 arguement’?

Isn’t that a Clint Eastwood movie?

Ganking is kind of the poster child for what I think is the bigger picture, though I suppose mileage will vary. You asked what Eve was and at the time I said self determination, but that can be phrased another way: Freedom.

When I made my character oh so long ago and chose my faction, I chose Gallente because I value freedom, and when I say freedom, I mean freedom for all, not just my freedom. Our freedom is what I think is under attack.

Freedom is always kind of a messy business. Some of the free will do things you agree with, and some will do things you do not agree with. Protecting freedom, at least in my experience, gets complicated because it can mean stepping in to protect a person’s right to do something you do not like yourself.

That’s what ganking is to me. It’s a thing I don’t particularly like, nor would I want to do it, but to forbid it or prevent it is to take away from the people some of their ability to make their own choices. Eve’s conflict, and what makes it interesting, comes from people exercising their freedoms and disagreeing with how others are exercising theirs. Some level of player dissonance is almost a requirement to produce something of interest beyond the level of what you did at work. For whatever ISK you can get from soloing missions and what not, they only make for small talk, not memorable conversation.

While I think it’s normal for the average person to look at something they disagree with, shoe horn it into some moral framework, and try to reach a popular consensus on how people should behave, I wonder if they realize that by doing so they are taking the Eve out of Eve. We’re supposed to disagree and by our disagreement drive the conflict that becomes our content. CCP’s job as steward of our universe is to provide the opportunities for our freedoms to conflict and the mechanics to make those conflicts interesting.


Heh, so clueless, heh…
Do you people even play the game? :smirk:

Destiny being Destiny again…

Currently that player is not playing the game, so is that clueless? You are the one looking clueless.

He made an assumption on that kill but the information was in the killmail, lack of gate guns indicate that he had not attacked anyone else and that I had caught him, it is pretty obvious as killmail intel goes for gankers, but he missed it or did not know of it.

I would assume that you would make the same mistake in your eagerness to throw shite.

@Qia_Kare once again you fall for their well honed tactic of adjusting anything to do with ganking balance into a no ganking type of debate which is not the case, both you and I agree that ganking is part of the game. What it is all about is that they are protecting their play style by linking any balance change to ending ganking, no one else in this game gets that type of protection, hell when we started blowing up wrecks they got CCP to change it so we found it harder to do.

Look at the balance issues on where they get a free lunch, like loot scooping for example, tethering that allows them to loiter safely and get into warp without impediment. Look at tags that enable them to get around their security status, so their initial tackle is immune to interference until he goes criminal giving them the upper hand on that initial tackle.

Very few people AG at this point, organised fleets are very rare, mainly because you can’t rep anyone that gets into a limited engagement with a ganker. Mechanics are giving them a free pass and they want to protect that by crying wolf, like a soprano…

Dracvlad is like one of those old sea dog captains who will tell you countless stories about meeting mermaids on the high seas. He’ll give you an earful about where to look for them, how to coax them to come out, how they communicate, what they like, and even oddly specific instructions for how to romance them.

But he will never, ever, no matter how much you ask and beg, actually take you out to meet them for yourself.


Destiny being Destiny again…

You are like a stuck gramophone record, do carry on.

Just back on the OP a minute.

Certainly alphas aren’t getting 770 DPS out of a Catalyst, and assuming (which is always dangerous without confirmation) that this figure has been used to calculate the number of catalysts required to gank a tanked freighter, then:

Essentially, 30 Omega accounts from the OP calculations, are required to defeat 1 other player.

The balance from the OP’s own figures, is already heavily in favour of Freighter pilots, without any other help needed.

There isn’t another area of the game where the position of 30:1 omega accounts before the 1 loses, needs more balance towards the 1. There shouldn’t be here either.