Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank

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THAT is some old stuff!!! You need to meet my brother!

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You realize you disprove what you’re trynna say with this remark right? “What if” :smiley:

I ain’t talking about anyone but you home skillet :smiley:

You tried tho :smiley:

Well, it has been illuminating. You’re a griefer and a botter. Not surprising tho :smiley:

Spock says emotion detected :smiley:

Oh. So since you use alpha accounts to grief, should we limit those too? :smiley:

Um. Yennoe we don’t have like daily meetings where we plot against ya yennoe. In fact, I’ve only ever seen a handful of these peeps even in game. Last time I saw Aiko physically in game was during the Christimas event, and I promptly bounced from the event site and docked up :smiley:

Also erm, you are the only one who appears to just ROFLcopter out and throw fits. Everyone else stays pretty rational LOL.

He thinks he’s important enough that we have meetings about him :smiley:

You realize you already admitted it wasn’t right? A few posts ago :smiley:

Sometimes I feel you just huff your own gas too hard and confuse even yourself about your stance.

I mean don’t get me wrong broskillet, it just makes me giggle :smiley:

Just go talk to Knowledgeminer in Hek. He lost a nestor in a duel to these bad gankers :smiley:

He also challenged me to a fight at Hek sun, which I actually flew to and he stood me up :frowning:

So I just flew around in my atron warning peeps about the evils of mining in Hek. Then I had a nice exchange in local with a Dracsys or whatever lame GoT alliance name it is.

Good times :smiley:

Cept you already agree it wasn’t the same :smiley:

Bro are you kidding me? Lucas makes me giggle :smiley:

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I had a recent “chat” with Homeland Security over my drone that I wish you were there for.

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Come to think of it, ccp could make an indecent amount of money if they were to develop a drone that looked like a Nemesis, or any other suitable hull (drake, hecate, hel, nyx) that can have four propellers on it.

ccp, you saw it here first !!

I’m speechless. More distractions?

I know, it’s not a bad idea, right ? Could come with different skins as well. And a camera that pops out of the bay where the bomb launcher is. :face_with_hand_over_mouth: “No, officer, I wasn’t spying”.

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Say your peace then get on with it.

We all have our agendas. I still want a war dec fix. No one can come up with a good idea, but you don’t see me spamming the forums for it.

No massive EvE drone fleet fight above Reykjavik harbor ?
Sad bunny.

Okay, back to a fix for wardecs, ehm ganking.

I’m too old to deploy sadly. :cry:

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So, uhhh… new player, and relatively new to the forums. Looks like this thread is filled with a whole bunch of drama, so I’m going to sidestep all that and reply to the OP instead of the debate going on below it.

To start off (I’ve said this in a few threads on related topics), I’m a new face in EVE Online, but this isn’t my first step ever into New Eden. I played DUST 514, through beta and launch and up until close to its death. I had fun, and while it hasn’t involved actual gameplay, I’ve also followed information and news about the game because of various friends who have played the game over the years, dating right back to the game’s launch. I haven’t followed it as closely as games I’m playing personally, but I know more than a typical new person would. I’m not going to pretend to know everything, because I really don’t, but I have seen where this game has come from, and where it’s been going, in fairly general terms at least.

So, looking back at the OP… I have to say this feedback is at the very least much better thought out than a lot of the suggestions people have made. That said, I don’t agree with most of it. I’ll be listing the headings (not quoting) and providing my reasons for disagreeing, some of which are just “gut feeling” because it just seems like this is working as intended from my perspective. Now that we’re clear on what’s happening… lets go!

1-2 CONCORD Pulls
Quite simply, I disagree that this is a problem. This is one of those “gut feeling” things. This game is designed to feel like a real place, and in the real world, it makes sense - if you have the logistics in place to make it happen - to draw the attention of local security or police ofrces to a location that’s not where you want to break in and commit crimes, then do youre real villainy somewhere else before they can turn around. 6 seconds is a long time in PvP, but I think it’s a fair thing to build into the game. It gives players a way to, with some investment in effort (if not resources), expand the viability of their hisec raiding strategies.

1-3 The “forcing values” argument
This isn’t a problem, it’s an argument in defense of the claim that there are problems. And it’s not a very good argument, from where I’m sitting. Freedom means not facing consequences for your decisions. Giving a player full freedom means allowing them to use that freedom to impair the freedom of others. Limiting their ability to impair another player’s freedom is a limitation on their freedom. You’re arguing for more safety here, not more player freedom. Balancing safety/security against freedom is something the real world has to deal with in difficult ways, and most games push harder toward the “security” side of the fence. EVE Online is specifically and intentionally designed to fall closer to actual player freedom, but that means, to a degree, a lack of consequeces.

2-1 safety restrictions on Alphas
This one, from what I know of the system, seems like a very minor restriction to impose. That said, I think it should only apply to hisec. Even lowsec, and obviously for null and elsewhere, even alphas should be able to go red.

2-2 CONCORD arrival time
For obvious reasons, given that I disagree with the premise that this is a problem, I disagree with this suggestion to “fix” it. If the devs decide they like your idea more than I do, though, I won’t complain. I’m a hisec miner so it’ll work to my benefit.

2-3 Kill Rights improvements
I didn’t argue with the problem being addressed here, because I agree with it. That said, I don’t entirely agree with your suggestion for how to fix it. I think you’re suggesting making it too strong in one sense, and not strong enough in another. Firstly, 30 days seems to me like a fair amount of time, I don’t think it should be extended. Second, I’m assuming you mean that the target of the Kill Right is assigned a weapon timer, to prevent them from docking. And 60s is the default weapon timer, so that seems fair to me as well. In addition, I think using a Kill Right to destroy a ship should count as CONCORD authorised, so the (former) ganker doesn’t get their insurance payout. Giving the player the target’s name is sufficient for a Locator Agent to be used, BUT I think there should be some effective standing bonus for a player wishing to do this against a Kill Right target, so you can get the rest of the information more easily, but only on that target (and so experienced and willing alphas can more effectively work their way to proper access when hunting with Kill Rights). This would have the same result you’re looking for, but without creating excessively long-term penalties for a shot stint as a pirate. It’s something a lot of players recommend for new players to at least try out sometime, and giving them a year-long punishment for doing so would be a bit too much.

2-4 Ban on hisec station/structure access for negative SS players
This is another problem where I agree that there’s a problem, but disagree with your solution, at least in part. I’d argue not to hard-block a player from docking, but to charge a docking fee for players with deep enough negative SS. With the cost of docking being scaled to not just the security rating of the system and the status of the player, but also on the value of the ship they’re bringing into the station. Alongside (or instead of?) this, they could add a permanent suspect flag on the more heavily negative SS players in hisec space. If you’re in 0.5 this would only kick in when you hit -10.0 but for higher security, this could drop as a linear progression to 1.0 space flagging anyone at -5.0 or worse. This makes these players a more attractive target for potential gankers, and anti-gankers trying to play at being police, but lets the identified criminal at least have a chance to rush through an attack and dock up.

3­. Data extraction
This one, I just flat disagree with. I don’t think it’s at all necessary or will provide any meaningful benefit to the community, the developers, or the game world.

I hope this post derails the other conversation that’s going on right now… probably not but we’ll see :slight_smile:

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The way things stand right now a character with a sec status below -5 becomes an ‘outlaw’, or, less formally, ‘permaflashy’. These characters flash red, like criminals, but do not have the criminal flag that summons CONCORD. They are free to engage. In addition to being free to engage, outlaws are pursued by faction police (FacPo, for short), if they remain stationary for too long. FacPo are not invincible and all powerful, like CONCORD, but they are formidable enough to discourage outlaws from remaining in one place in space for long and thus other players will rarely find them in space to fire on.

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But we know it to be true :smiley:

:smiley: Sure bud. We all know you used an alpha. You sure didn’t use your “main” :smiley:

Grampy, no one uses kid anymore :smiley:

Many people argue the opposite of OP: make CONCORD response times longer.

That makes it easier for newbies to get into ganking as there is more time – and therefore more lesser-SP tool options – to use to get into ganking. Furthermore, it allows anti-ganking fleets more time to actually perform roles other than EWAR or remote repair roles. For them, too, it opens up more counter-play. Finally, veteran gankers would need to multibox less, which intorduces a negative financial incentive for CCP but improves general morale of the playerbase, as many people view multiboxing as a net negative on the game’s ecosystem – but it is so prevalent, it is one of those “necessary evil” things.

All of these would be more engaging playstyle choices for players involved. However, it undoubtedly controversial to propose due to the increased danger to everyone in high sec.

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Home skillet, you admitted to the botting.

You admitted to the griefing :smiley:

Also uh did you check your EVE box for writing that highlighted being away from the keyboard is a central tenet to playing the game or

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Thanks for this! (the whole post, not just the line I’m quoting)

It’s good to see the reverse of the OP’s suggestion being proposed with reasons why it’s a good idea. I haven’t dug into this much (well, not for a LOOOONG time, anyway, and I wasn’t a player back then), so hearing all sides of the conversation helps me to understand the current state (and the possibilities) better.

Do you mean that in the literal sense of the word “ganking” in EvE, namely unexpectedly attacked (perhaps while you were AFK mining) ?

Or do you mean it in a post-discussion sort of way, that people had the audacity to post their own opinions and not be so gracious to let you have the spotlights and the floor all to yourself, in any thread with the word “gank” ?

Objectively speaking, would you say that you had more right to thread space than anyone else ?

And how do you equate other people posting opinions different from yours with “harassment” ?

Uh huh. So like you said, it should be written on that box of yours right?

Right? :smiley:

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Uh huh. So what you’re saying is it isn’t written on the box.

Despite you claiming being away from the keyboard is a core tenet of playing EVE Online.

Man. You just decided to hijack that ROFLcopter and nosedive it into the ground yourself huh?

Bro. I am literally secondhand embarrassed for you ROFL.

Well, you dodged my question twice :smiley:

Is it on the box or not :smiley:

Embarrassed for what? I’m not claiming a core tenet of a vidya game is not being at the keyboard for the game :smiley: