[PROPOSAL] HAC balance: Cerberus damage type change

(StupidVic) #1

I guess you all know what I’m about to say: It’s time to free the Cerberus from the kinetic lock!

I’m glad to see that CCP has removed the kinetic lock on the Navy Drake recently, just like what they once did with the Caracal and the Raven. However, with them, as well as the Minmatar ScFI and the Amarr Sacrilege in mind, it seems awkward that the Cerberus, the expensive ultimate missile cruiser of the lore-wise missile faction is still kinetic-locked. It becomes more “unacceptable” if we consider that the eagle, Caldari’s other HAC, is kinetic-thermal locked while all three other factions each have at least one HAC that can select damage type without sacrificing its hull bonus.

Also, I don’t think this change will make the RLML Cerberus OP (which I suppose will be the concern since RLML Cerbs are hated by many people), since she is already having difficulty changing damage types due to the 35s reload time of the RLML. Again, I think this change will improve the player experience of the Cerb pilots, without making it oppressive to other ships (Com’on, the Cerb’s kinetic lock is the kind of legacy HAC features just like the Deimos’s MWD cap bonus, the Vaga’s speed bonus, the eagle’s 0m3 drone bay and the Muninn’s 3 mid slots. Let’s give it some love : P)

(Lugh Crow-Slave) #2

as much as i hate the kin lock of caldari i hate people using QOL for things that are not QOL much more

(StupidVic) #3

Well we have different opinions on this but at least don’t hate me. There are already too many haters in this universe : P
Yeah technically it’s not a QoL like for example the reload mechanism change recently. It is a balance change.

(Lugh Crow-Slave) #4

you admit you understand that… and are using QoL fully disingenuously

(StupidVic) #5


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #6

now on to the idea. you do realize it will in many cases be a nerf to it correct?

(StupidVic) #7

My bad I didn’t mention the detailed plan to do this. I’m thinking of making that 25% kinetic bonus a 25% Omni bonus, which will absolutely be a buff. However, it’s not like buffing the Cerb’s damage for an entire 25%. What it will offer as a buff is the versatility.

I can’t see how this can “in many cases be a nerf”. But yeah I’d rather have the Cerb receive the Omni bonus buff and then take some adjustment (nerf) as long as it keeps its current niche, than keeping the kin lock which I consider a very outdated concept.

(Lugh Crow-Slave) #8

no… you don’t get that. the kin lock is a draw back to the high damage. it’s why the caldari kin locked ships have higher damage than their unlocked minmatar/amarr counterparts. you can’t remove the drawback and keep the bonus.

i don’t like this because it kills the unique point of missiles but it’s not something that can be ignored if you want to give back its damage selection

(Makshima Shogo) #9

Hmm, I have a different proposal then :] it keeps the 25% kin bonus but gets 15% bonus to the other damage type’s and convert’s 50% of any other ammo used to kinetic damage so that it can use other damage but it will always be doing more kin than anything else :].

But Cerb is still the strongest Hac so if its getting a buff other hac’s should get some loving too :] the whole class as a whole still need’s some love. The only place it is good is in the new filament site’s but only becuase t3c’s are banned from them.

(StupidVic) #10

Got your point. I’ve actually thought about it and my opinion now is that the recent buffs to some ships have changed the standard of a high cost high damage missile platform. I mean the Orthrus with 8.75 effective launchers and omni damage, the Loki with 10 effective launchers and omni damage, or the navy drake with 10.5 effective launchers and omni damage.

Also I consider CCP’s design philosophy on the Cerb is that they give it an overpowered missile system + underpowered fitting space, mobility & utility + normal level of defense, and try to get a balanced ship. The kin lock shouldn’t be the price it pays for the high damage and range, since it already paid its price (fitting space, mobility and utility). But honestly I personally will accept a damage nerf to get the damage selection back since kin lock is such a pain in the ass and as you’ve said, it kills the unique point of missiles

(StupidVic) #11

A complex plan that I can’t understand… but it looks like the OspreyNI treatment

(Lugh Crow-Slave) #12

it gets over 1k DPS at 60+km… giving it Omni damage in addition to that is a bit much

tengue kin locked gets more, orthrus is really not the best example for balance… and the DNI is still an experiment

(StupidVic) #13

I agree HACs still need some love generally. I was shocked to hear that they gave most HACs nothing but the new ADCU. I mean just look at poor zealot : (

(Lugh Crow-Slave) #14

how about the eagle that is worse than the onyx in almost every way. I mean how do you ■■■■ that up ccp

(Makshima Shogo) #15

Technically they didn’t say anything about finishing the Hac balance for all we know they are still balancing it :] hopefully. One day my vaga can have that 5th mid slot :blush:

(StupidVic) #16

Is that the polarized HAM fit to get 1k at 60+?

I think the current Orthrus has been nerfed enough to be… at least not broken. Although people will keep hating it anyway. What I think about the Orthrus is that it’s damage has never been the problem, the problem is that it pays nothing for its damage. It has amazing utility, crazy speed, and not bad defense if it’s a LSE+XLASB fit.

Tengu needs it more than the Cerb, I agree. I’m mentioning the Cerb here because I’ve heard that CCP is still working on HAC balance.

(Makshima Shogo) #17

The point range + speed is what make’s it broken, the only thing’s that got nerfed was tank by power grid reduction if I remember correctly, so if your in any ship that can’t project to 50-60k’s sorry for you lol.

(StupidVic) #18

OH ■■■■ YESSSSS Vaga lives matter I want that 5th mid ! ! !

(Lugh Crow-Slave) #19

… but the tengu doesn’t need it more than the cerb. it’s just one of the many many reasons the loki is king right now.



it got a slap on the wrist and remains one of the most oppressive ships in the gam. almost nothing can get close to it with that scram bonus (seriously if ccp took that away and only left the point range it would be fine) and it can just plink at you all day at its leisure

(Makshima Shogo) #20

The only reason it’s seen as not oppressive is because you have so many bad pilot’s flying them stupidly and loosing them making the killboard’s sort of balance out against all the good pilot’s that are wrecking havok in it lol.

Although every time I see an orthrus pilot the Munnin comes out to play :smiley: