[PROPOSAL] Support Avatar Gameplay as a Means of Increasing Immersion

(Lulu Lunette) #63

This poor thread.

(Markus Jameson) #64

I did… and you’re right… almost turned me away from the game :anguished: must think of try to do better for the children :worried:

@Rina_Asanari truce?

Let me restate my position & what I mean & maybe we can go on from there?

I’m not saying WIS & the rest will come back any time soon or even that it will happen.

What I am saying is that general trends in gaming are (& always have been) towards more expansive environments.

Which means eventually somewhere down the road (however long that is) EVE will be competing with MMO’s that offer everything it has plus all of that.

So if it does survive long enough to find itself in competition with these games (which it may or may not, I’m making no judgement on that score) it will have to expand to offer all of that too or it will die.

This may be 10 years down the road or 20, but it will be.

(Rina Asanari) #65

Let’s just agree to differ.

I’m still pretty sure that CCP will take on a “once burned, twice shy” approach on anything deviating from spaceships, since their last one (and a half) attempt turned out to be simply money sinks. And that they may reason that away as “staying true to the core gameplay experience” or other marketspeak like that.

There are companies refusing to follow trends (or fads, depending how one looks at it) and still remain successful with their products, advertising their products as “traditional” or “passing the test of time”. And CCP does look to be rather averse to groundbreaking changes to me. They may say “if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it” or “people didn’t leave in droves over CQ’s retirement, so why bother?”

So far, there isn’t any serious competition offering a good spaceship/trade/exploring simulation and avatar gameplay, and it will still take lots of time until there is. CCP, risk-averse as I deem them to be now, would not try to take on a leading role in development again, in fear of opening another money sink or bad press/reviews because of another failed product.

So, I’m quite sure that another game will be the first offering a sizeable piece of EvE’s gameplay coupled with avatar gameplay.

And then it would be CCP’s decision whether to jump back on to the WiS bandwagon again or simply say “we’re staying true to our core gameplay, and that’s space action” and dismiss avatar gameplay as a whole.

The introduction of CQ (and the overpriced apparel, mainly) incited riots in Jita. I’m pretty sure their management will remember them when WiS (or however it may be called in the future) is put on the table again.

A semi-famous example may be the “New Coke” debacle of (youknowwhichcompany) where they decided to roll back the change in the receipe because of poor acceptance of the new one… and never tried that again. And that’s more than thirty years ago.

(yellow parasol) #66

That’s not going to happen.

  • it’s not possible to create a game with a proper, comparable, working economy, where players jump in to be a part of it.
  • the modern gamer isn’t made for a game that starts from zero, to build up a proper, comparable economy and sandbox, like EVE is.

There will always be clones, and games that try, but there will not be a game that can skip 10+ years of cultural and economic development. the only way to create a competitor, would be to start like EVE did: as a hardcore niche game, that allows slow, organic growth. and that means it won’t be a competitor for a good amount of years, because carebears would hate it.

(Jian Mira) #67

(Benje en Divalone) #68

Except the New Old Coke isn’t Old Coke. They replaced sugar with the travesty known as high-fructose corn syrup. I feel 1000x better once I stopped consuming that junk. So, lose-lose for ol’ KO and PEP when they pulled a similar stunt with Sierra Mist.


  • All equipment is craftable.
  • No NPC vendors.
  • Everything’s destructable.
  • Gameplay is not dependent on the use of shiny mods.

Throw in some competent balance and a reason to blow up and get blown up and you’ll have a roaring economy.

Wat? People start from zero all the time. If they didn’t then no new MMO, heck no new game would have any sort of success. It’s equally silly to assume that market makers don’t play new games either.

Ask Wildstar how successful #hardcore was.

Of course things are different. We’ve realized that “barefoot, uphill, in the snow” for the sake of self-flagellation is sheer masochism.

(yellow parasol) #69

oh, well, if you know better… okay. :slight_smile:

(Markus Jameson) #70

So what about if you like masochism? :smile:

(Benje en Divalone) #71

I’m sure there’s an island or five in Second Life for that…

(Jack Carrigan) #72

Hmm, here’s something I noticed that’s semi-related. Why do only the expedition suits come with a sidearm?

You’d figure a holster and sidearm would be available to damned near everyone.

(Pleasure Hub Node-514) #73

Or just build a sidearm into the arm…

giphy (1)

(Patti 'Potato' Patrouette) #74

I have often found myself thinking about this great game, even when life has prevented me from playing it and my own idiosyncracies, and tbh honest made up issues I need to just get over, have prevented me from making the most of it…

and it really was just a bunch of guys making stuff up, the players not the devs, and it grew and became what it is now, jita became it wasn’t made, blokes like ‘dave’ who just wouldn’t shut up AT WORK in front of strangers, about his megathron and how he got ganked by mu like they were a real political entity like isis or eta (and they were to him) because he was so absorbed, they made the game, and the gankers, not griefers because its almost impossible to grief in this game, (to perform actions that solely upset another player- -in eve there are always economic and in game consequences intentional and otherwise), pirates who said yar and HTFU and old school carebears who made ■■■■ but weren’t scared of pvp and still said HTFU (but in a caring voice as they were bears obv.), and didn’t feel the need to label others as griefers, and later the crazy ■■■■ with burning jita and monoclegate, and Mittens and his hat, the bonus room, rise and fall of gambling, and the way the culture has changed and not changed, and I look at its complexity and think

the devs don’t balance the game they ensure the economy stays balanced, manage the sinks and faucets, and often they break the game, and the players find a way to fix it or not, or break it more, but it keeps working because the relationship between time spent earning resources and the in game pay off for getting them remains remarkably balanced,

if you start with people mining into little holds to gate your content, and players break it and say we can jet can mine now al your new shiny content will be old in months because we can all get battleships now, they didn’t call it an exploit they ran with it, and THAT and other examples is why we have this crazy economy that works,

its truly an emergent system and, if you wanted to achieve the same thing from scratch, you would have to get enough people to play that basic game with few resources, and get them to build a world from this nothing,

CCP have this problem child they made and are responsible for it, it lives or dies by its content but they have no real control over what that content is

For myself I like my space Barbie, I have a female char because I like dressing her up and wish there were more options for clothes, but in this space ship game, given the history of how WIS came about, was received, and then how much it was used, why would they go back to that?

So for people who just want to fly a spaceship or something there will always be other games, and the thing that makes eve unique means that these other games will nearly always have better ‘gameplay’ in the tightest sense of the word, because the devs will be able to control and limit what the players do with their world in ways that eve Devs can’t or break the only thing they have that works and makes regular income (eves economy and community)… but history tells us that even the best game gets boring after months/years whatever-

but for people who want to play in a real virtual world with and against other human beings, that wont get old and that is why eve still has more that 20k pcu all the time, why it hits 40k now when there has clearly been a bit of a drop off, and why CCP have money to ‘spend wisely’ on VR and vampire mmos- for those people eve is something that probably couldn’t exist again and if it dies it dies. and that would be sad.

just my 2p.

(Ichinumi Tsukaya) #75

Jack Carrigan for CSM

(Jack Carrigan) #76

Don’t you put that evil on me Ricky Bobby!

(Lulu Lunette) #77

My interest in Eve dropped significantly with the decision to remove WiS but in the two years I played it never got an update so I guess it was a long time coming

(Wolfgang Jannesen) #78

I could not care less about WiS. It didn’t exist initially, when it was implemented it wasn’t very impressive and when it was removed I wasn’t surprised. Do you know why? It didn’t add anything to the game. Having another captain in my quarters wouldn’t have either. It’s a fancier method of ship spinning, and I don’t see how its removal could negatively effect anybody aside from the super boring.

(Jehle) #79

There was a time when eves developers wanted eve to be a space sim. A sim where you could run a bar in a station if you wanted to.

Those devs are dead now.

Now eve is run by guys who got fired from EA for not getting enough microtransactions.

(Wolfgang Jannesen) #80

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHA are you serious? Absolutely not, that might have been an initial goal for Star Citizen, EVE has always and forever been a game about pvp fleet engagements and dynamic markets. Absolutely no work has ever gone into making that kind of universe where you can just be a bartender. What’s the point when you’re already a capsuleer?

(Markus Jameson) #81

Probably true … but he’s not talking about what was in practice / fact … he’s talking about what was originally envisioned as their eventual goal by the early devs, something I couldn’t attest too either way of course, I’m just pointing out that your not really addressing what he’s actually said :wink:

See above.

I would have thought that was obvious :roll_eyes: some people (not you, of course) really would enjoy that level of layered immersion / game-play.

(Jehle) #82

I would love to effort post but Markus was pretty much on point.

It was years ago I read that as a quote from a CCP dev. Maybe ill get lucky and it will be a dev blog.

Also, just to refute no work ever having gone into making it so you could be a bartender… There is the whole walking in stations thing.