Says notorious Caldari Corporate Capitalist Shill.
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This isnât the mob rule that the Federation likes to call âfreedomâ, nor is it the absence of accountability.
It is merely the freedom for each individual to make themselves and their goods marketable in the way they deem best, instead of someone else telling them how it ought to be done and why.
Given that the ILF couldnât be bothered to undock even to watch, let alone participate in the attempted destruction of the citadel, this is a pointless gesture on your part.
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Itâs always a pleasure to help our friends in the Serpentis, however indirectly. Iâm sure my fellow Guardians will continue to watch this situation with interest.
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Maâam, the mob rule is called not the âfreedomâ, but âdemocracyâ.
The freedom is lack of rules, codes, morals, regulations, friendships, loyalties, honor and any other bonds, would it be said about a social phenomenon (or physical bonds if it is used as a scientific or philosophical concepts in theoretical physics). It is an utter state of disarray, and it is practically impossible to build a good business with freedom, as you canât expect anyone to honor obligations, if they follow ideals of individual freedoms. And we already saw that behavior in politics from Gallente Federation: they sign a treaty, but when they donât want to follow that - they simply violate it, like they didnât sign anything.
If you have freedom, everyone can do whatever they want. If you offer goods - they can simply attack you and sieze your goods by force instead of trying to trade with you. Because they can, and because they are free to do so.
In comparison in the State we have probably the best open market that you can find in the whole cluster. Here you can sell and buy almost everything (except prohibited goods like drugs, slaves, some weapons, you can request list in customs). But we donât follow ideals of freedom, we follow ideals of order. And our laws and regulations protect participants of the market so we can uphold standards healthy hypercapitalist society, that maybe somewhat ruthless, but only in terms of business relations and within borders of laws and regulations. The State is the best place of opportunities, where you can fully reveal your potential without fear of being just robbed of your goods by pirates and other freedom-loving scum. And if a Caldari merchant gives you a word, you can most certainly expect them to follow it, because honor and reputation in business means way more than just a quick monetary gain.
Iâve enjoyed dipping in periodically, to catch up on this ongoing discussion, particularly the interesting views on morality in the market place.
I wasnât intending to get involved in the whole discussion regarding recent efforts to remove the Raituru because, other than idle curiosity on the part of two of our pilots who tested its defences shortly after it was anchored, the ILF has been content to ignore it. The structures just havenât really been a topic of conversation within the ILF or IPI.
I will however respond to some of the more pertinent points made, for balance and clarity.
I think itâs important that I begin by reasserting a point I made in my very first response:
This has long been the case.
As long ago as YC113, I personally congratulated the efforts of some of our most vocal political opponents, when they announced their short-lived âCentre of Commerceâ in neighbouring Agoze. While some took the cynical view that they were trying to undermine the Intaki V-5 Trade Hub, we set aside politics and recognised it as a boost to local trade and industry across the Viriette constellation. It is with this same approach that we have negotiated positive relations with United Neopian Federation - the brains behind the nearby Harbor Complex in Eugales I also referenced in an earlier response.
Far be it for facts to get in the way of a good marketing campaign.
The original announcement from 4FUNN above played to the controversial nature of the booster market, and made a point to reference their partnership with the Serpentis group. This, along with the provocative messaging in the Intaki system, works to generate a roguish image, that seems to work when attracting a particular capsuleer demographic.
Regardless, the ILF and IPI have no interest in participating in the booster market and, regardless of legality or not, we believe the industry to have a detrimental effect on the local population.
This moral view is informed by the personal experiences of our founder Saxon Hawke, who despite being lauded by 4FUNN earlier in this discussion, lost his own son to drug abuse. It also considers the wider Intaki peopleâs exposure to narcotics which made headlines during what is now referred to as the RISE incident. Our close relationship with the local population means were are intimately aware of the personal costs the narcotics industry can bring.
It is unfortunate, though innevitable, that in addition to discussing the merits of market competition, I should also find it necessary to defend the reputation of the IPI alliance, the Intaki Liberation Front, and our Suresha.
I have already highlighted the ILF and IPIâs willingness to work alongside others, when and where appropriate, always with the people of Intaki at the forefront of our minds, and in line with our political objectives when possible. There are plenty of examples where compromises have been made, some more comfortably than others.
This is called diplomacy.
When done effecively, it can result in independent 3rd parties choosing to speak out, challenging those who seek to challenge us, as some have done in this discussion, even including our vocal opponents such as @Andreus_Ixiris.
It also means that on occasion some may choose to take direct action to defend the ILF and IPIâs interests on our behalf.
This appears to be a point of frustration for 4FUNN, who belittle us for âhiding behindâ others, who they also disparage, saying:
Ironic then that they should find it necessary to call for help themselves, to defend their structures in Intaki from those they find insignificant in comparison to past glories.
I actually had a front row seat and sat, cloaked, to watch the fireworks from start to finish.
Additionally, in what appears to be an eagerness to continue with an apparent obsession with the Suresha, that has persisted for over 18 months, the 4FUNN spokesperson contradicts herself. We are reassured that:
She forgets that her original announcement included a disappointingly clumsy attempt to discredit the Suresha, with an accusation so ridiculous it barely warrants acknowledgement:
Quite simply, nonsense.
Of course these accusations against us, and my innevitable response is all part of the cut and thrust of animosity between two groups with opposing philosophies and a little history. Just as I expect 4FUNN to disregard my responses, so most of the noise they generate is irrelevent to us.
I would very much prefer to focus on local trade and industry, and on a free market where competition is welcome. I have always enjoyed the vigourous debates on Intaki politics and our place in New Eden, and look forward to more of the same.
But instead it is important that I respond and challenge the narrative being peddled by 4FUNN. I make reference to specific points above because the context behind 4FUNNâs motivation matters.
Driven by their own amusement, by attempting to provoke a reaction from the ILF, they simply do not share the depth of commitment to the people of Intaki, and the local economy that we do. This matters because, just as with all of those who have come before them, 4FUNNâs attention will wander. Innevitably, as they seek gratification elsewhere, their investments in Intaki will decline to nothing.
Of course, Iâm more than willing to reconvene in another decade, so that they can prove me wrong.
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Well said.
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Virtue signalling isnât a real thing either. Keep your information-age buzzwords to yourself.
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Oh, but it is. It has been a thing before the term virtue signalling came into existence, even.
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People who accuse others of virtue signalling are accusing others of saying theyâre better than them in an attempt to say that theyâre better than said virtue signallar.
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Mo. Virtue signalling is a demagogic tool, used to bind members of alternative cultures in society together.
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Whenever anyone accuses someone else of âvirtue signalling,â it always shows infinitely more about them than it does about the accused - namely, that they canât possibly imagine that someone might do something nice or responsible unless itâs self-serving or they have an ulterior motive.
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And that loses its meaning when you consider that itâs used to marginalise other groups and other them so whatever bad thing youâre doing to them seems okay.
Such as instilling non-negotiable democracy over sovereign colonies that never asked for it, but youâd be damned if you let those Caldari decide what they want for themselves, etc.
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The virtue signalling label is used to marginalize the disenfranchised and disempowered. If the Federation is using the virtue signalling label against the Caldari and the Caldari are disenfranchised and disempowered, then that proves Mr Ixirisâs point. Donât you think?
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Are the Caldari disempowered though? I mean, they pretty much upped and left when they found out that the democratic system was broken and didnât actually afford them some of the rights that they wanted. Then they formed their own government which brings us to today.
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So Iâm clearly not seeing what youâre getting at. Are the Caldari marginalized or not. If theyâre not disempowered then theyâre not marginalized, right? Yet youâre saying that theyâre marginalized.
Iâm not saying the Federation is right in how theyâve treated the Caldari, but what is it? Are the Caldari marginalized or not? If so, is the Federation accusing the Caldari of virtue signalling?
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I think weâre using different meanings of the word here. Being marginalised means that your importance is downplayed, as in âthese peopleâs opinions donât matter because theyâre X, unlike us who are Y.â
Then those people take up arms and impose direct democracy and you suddenly find out that alienating a sizeable portion of the population in your domain might not have been the best choice.
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If you have to bring up historical geopolitics to justify use of a term that was provably and utterly debunked before those historical geopoltiics even occured, youâre on the losing side of the argument.
Take your L and sit down.
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Oh, Iâm just using it as an example that we all know of, in some capacity or other. The fact of the matter is that the practice has existing long before the term was coined, and will continue to exist after it was debunked. But, if youâre going to ignore the actual meaning of the words in favour of pointing out and latching to a minor detail, youâre on the wrong side of the arguement.
Take your L and sit down.
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Which removes power as only people with power in a society have opinions that others in that society think matter. Not all opinions are equal and can be rejected out of hand for failing to meet the most basic criteria. Some groups that continually parade bad opinions rejected for good reasons, conflate it with marginalization and call it âvirtue signalling.â
That you claim the Caldari are marginalized under the âvirtual signallingâ argument robs the Caldari of some of their legitimacy. Iâd wish youâd stop it. Thank you.
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