PVE... or PVP

Congrats, and welcome to EVE Online.

You will do a lot better in this game if you leave your naive sense of space honor (condescendingly referred to as “space bushido”) at the door and realize that EVE Online is a harsh environment where nothing is fair.

You’re 100% right on that.

Then you should go find another game to play! :slight_smile:

NOPE!
Because 1) that’s impossible, and 2), grow a spine you coward.

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Learn, you’re supposed to learn. EVE is far more about knowledge, planning and preparation than it is about skill points, isk or cool ships. That is why skill training takes time as it also takes time to realize that you need to learn and then actually start doing the learning. By the time you know wth you’re doing (IF you started putting in that effort, which most don’t do) your skill points have caught up and you can fly the cool ships.

And by that time you’ll have learned that you don’t need to fly cool ships to “win” and that you didn’t lose because the other person flew a cool ship.

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Although it’s been said before (and undoubtlessly will be said again) it’s worth reiterating that if you undock in Eve, in effect, you are opening yourself up to the imminent and immediate risk that you may be blown up.

Space in Eve is like the lawless wild west, on a bunch of levels.

Fundamentally some people tend to play Eve as Jedi, and some people play as Sith. Some pilots are good and some are bad and some, possibly, are somewhere in between. You’ can’t be paranoid 24/7, but at the same time, be cautious, always.

Some pilots (who might possibly lean towards the Sith end of the personality spectrum) will look upon any naivety on your part and/or weakness in the set-up of your ships as an opportunity to be exploited mercilessly for their personal enrichment. This extends to stealing from you, screwing you over generally and of course, blowing you up.

You ignore this reality at your peril.

To mitigate it, at least partially, in terms of spaceflight, before you undock, you need to learn to properly fit ships, and continually risk assess any situation that you warp into (meaning checking your ship set-up, watching local chat [and who’s in the system] and running D-scans)

There is no truly safe bit of space in Eve. There are bits that are a bit safer than others but nowhere is truly safe and that’s the reality.

Again, you ignore this reality at your peril.

As far as people saying ‘GF’ post ship destruction goes, I think this is complicated, at best.

Text-based communication is frequently devoid of nuance, or any context and this becomes even more pronounced and extreme when abbreviations, like GF are used. On a simplistic level we all know that GF obviously stands for “Good Fight”, but because of the nuance stripping aspect of text comms, it’s often hard to know what the intent behind using it is.

It could be that the victorious pilot’s intent is to be respectfully sportsmanlike towards the loser, thus: “Good fight mate”. I’m sure that, in at least some cases, this is invariably true.

It could also, however, be, indicative of the victor mocking you, thus: Good Fight (you pathetic loser … Ha! Ha! Ha!). I’m also sure that, in at least some cases, this is also invariably true.

The difficulty here is that because any nuance has been stripped out unless the pilot follows up this message with anything else, it’s impossible to tell.

My gut feeling says if you do want to actually try to communicate with someone, whether this is post-fight or just generally, then you ought to either make the effort to communicate in a way that is transparent, straightforward and understandable or maybe you shouldn’t say anything at all.

Needless to say, I rarely use abbreviations

I’m mostly a miner.

If someone blows me up in some ridiculously well-armed ship (at least when compared to my completely unarmed mining barge) I don’t really care if they thought it was a good fight or not to be honest and when people have tried to send me a GF message in these situations, I’ve just ignored them. There’s no need to be overtly rude, but their platitudes are of no real interest to me at this stage.

It will always sting to lose a ship and that won’t ever change. To quote the US marines you just need to ‘embrace the suck’. (‘Embrace the Suck’ and More Military Speak…). This isn’t intended as a wisecrack. To quote the marines again, it’s a raw epigram based on encyclopedic experience. Face it, I’ve been there. This ain’t easy. Now let’s deal with it.

All you can do after the destruction of a ship is pick yourself up, try to analyse why it happened, add the assessor to your filth list (flag them as red so that it’s obvious when they enter a solar system where you’re present) fit your ship better, (or if you can afford it, fly a better ship) and move on.

Lastly, and for what it’s worth, I do ‘do’ PvE from time to time and it’s very enjoyable but I never ever stop watching local and if I see anyone dodgy warp into the system, then I’m out of there. You can always fight another day, and running for safety is not cowardice, it’s just prudent battle management.

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I think saying this was possibly unnecessarily nasty.

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Ergo, you choose to go to low sec and thus are fair game for anybody.

Situation has nothing to do with it. People will not first ask or check if it is okay for them to shoot you

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Wow. Those are some interesting responses. I’ll just say this: I understand that this game is supposed to be dangerous. I get that there are really no safe spaces here. Okay, I get it. But if you can’t admit that some situations are more inherently lopsided… such as making a target of someone who has just barely survived a different, unrelated battle… that’s not a fair fight at all and anyone can see that. It may be the nature of this game but it’s certainly not fair by any measure. As far as the name calling and such I have no comment. Considering the reputation this game has for betrayal, backstabbing, scams, etc… I suppose I should not really expect any sort of fair, sportsman-like conduct while actually playing the game. It does give me something to think about while I consider if I actually want to pay for a SUBSCRIPTION to this game.

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You’re missing the point. No one cares what situation you’re in or how well prepared you are, that’s your own job. If you feel that you’re on low cap, health and are really just in danger of being jumped upon you act on that by leaving or at the very least aligning. The only one responsible for your safety or well being is you.

Wolves go for the easy kills, sick or downed animals. Those sickly and weakened deer can’t go “well that’s not fair now is it, why not go after a a healthy one because that’s way more of a fight”.

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We have no trouble admitting that. In fact, lots of people have been trying to tell you it’s not supposed to be fair. The trick is figuring out how to make the unfairness lean in the other direction.

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You go to an active pvp zone aka lowsec where concord deliberately has no presence beyond gate and station guns then act surprised people pvp you?

:thinking:

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And in that EVE is fair. Everyone has the same opportunities, everyone has the same chances and choices. The thing is that different people make different choices which creates the gap when it comes to an actual confrontation.

EVE has equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. Nor should it ever have that.

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“Man, I really want to rob this bank, but that teller looks really busy. I think I’ll just let her do her job and come back some other time.” Said no bank robber…ever.

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Well, it’s your money. Do what you want with it.

Can I have your stuff?

Yes, it does. I’m not going to apologize for the harsh responses you got. Harshness is a reality in Eve. We are a weird bunch of people. Some of us will help you out, some of us will gank you any chance we get, some of us will do both.

But Eve isn’t a game for everyone. And suggesting changes to fundamental aspects of the game is not a way to endear yourself to the current/long term player base. I’ve seen a game make fundamental changes to its game to attract new players, it basically killed SWG. So, we already know it’s a bad idea.

Finally, while I’m sure you didn’t mean it, putting the word ‘subscription’ in capitals suggests you think we should take note of the importance of your subscription as if its more important than those who disagree with you. That’s not going to endear yourself to the long term subscribers either.

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You could have been a bait, there’s no way to tell if a fresh character is an incompetent noob or an good bait so you become fair game the second you step a toe in a lowsec system.

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Everything is permitted in love and war. And guess what, that spaceship is not designed for lovemaking.

In EVE the only one responsible for your safety is you yourself. Don’t want a fight? Don’t be in a place where the fight is.

You, by jumping into lowsec, letting yourself go deep into hull damage AND low on capacitor, made yourself an easy kill. It is not the attackers fault that he took the easy prey.

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All this mention of “fairness” had me look up the killmail.

It was an Algos vs Hookbill. The Hookbill piloted by someone from E-Uni. Someone surely called in the batphone for you. I’d unsub myself, if I’d been gangbanged so hard.

Nope, it isn’t. EVE isn’t fair. Either deal with it and find a way to make things unfair in your favor or ragequit and go back to WoW.

It does give me something to think about while I consider if I actually want to pay for a SUBSCRIPTION to this game.

I’d ask if I could have your stuff but it looks like that Hookbill already took care of that.

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Fixed it for you :smiley:

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You’re right, it’s not fair.

There are games that simulate fair and honorable conflict (e.g. team-based shooters and MOBAs), and games that simulate unfair conflict (e.g. open-world MMOs, the entire “zombie survival” genre, Battletoads for the NES). Both have a place in the world. So let me ask you this: what do you think is the right thing for you to do here? To play the type of game that already caters to your needs, or to request that games that don’t cater to your needs be changed so that they do, at the expense of everyone who is already playing those games and enjoying them for the experiences they offer?

You are judging a game based on the actions of its players. Judge the game on its own merits. Does the game deliver what it advertises to offer? If a game advertises open-world PvP, and that’s exactly what it ends up providing (players being able to attack other players anytime, anywhere), can you objectively say that it’s a bad game, or perhaps it’s better to admit that you made the wrong decision?

Anyway, look: things aren’t as bad as they seem. If you keep playing for a few more months, you will get used to this, and will be experienced enough to avoid or deal with various situations as they arise. You’ll look back on this as a fond memory as you sit on a hoard of your accumulated wealth. That’s how the rest of us got here. Do you really think that no one here felt bad about taking “unfair” losses when they were new? We did, but we got over it.

Or you can pack up your toys and go home, and be like the other 96% (someone correct me with the official stat if I’m wrong) of the weaklings who can’t deal with a challenge, and quit with tears in their eyes and froth on their lips. The choice is yours.

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dude i fell you
this week i lost billions and this month 3 faction battleships or moar , people say gf to be nice,
its not personal , its like good morning , people that don’t say it is BM IMHO
its not fair, it never stop being sad , but is part of the game
if you were in low sec rating and there was not d scam and no scum bag pirates one day the game would become boring for you
i think you are brave for venture in low , you are doing it right, most people are to coward to do it
but as people say , dscam all the time, is better to lost the loot than your ship
or do it like me , lose your ship , insta re buy , become depressed for few days never give up :stuck_out_tongue:
fly safe o7