PvE Roundtable - Saturday 31st of March

You assume a lot. I would wager ISK that if CCP is able to collect the statistics we would see that zero, or a number statistically indistinguishable from it, people have been ganked in a Resource Wars site in the last 90 days. Yes, there is theoretically a risk if you want to be pedantic, but they are still the safest sites ever put into the game, and require the most effort/cost to PvP there than anywhere else, so it is really border-line insane to claim that safety was a factor in why they failed.

I think all reasonable people here will agree that Dryson’s assertion that Resource Wars failed because there were too open to attack by gankers is unequivocally wrong. There were several much more serious problems that kept them from being successful and a widely-used mechanic than the fact that even though they were mechanically the safest sites ever put into the game, there was still a theoretical window for a determined attacker to score a kill at great financial cost.

If that was the case, how come people do the other PvE in highsec, all of which is much more risky that the gated site design that Resource Wars uses?

you can decline the kill amarr missions and while you are at it decline the worlds collides and angel extravaganza too. Just run the burners and a few other missions. With good social skills and faction standings you can decline almost every normal mission, and the few I accept pay very well.

You post on the forums enough I’m sure you’ve seen a post with more details and oh yea you’ve seen the post, but you dismissed it right away rather than trying it. (or deliberately tried to spread misinformation)

Like I just said mission running tactics have changed, and most mission running ships have been buffed over the years. Plus burners pay out a ton of isk + lp. If you still don’t like mission payouts maybe go try incursions.

And you are looking at prices of specific items, you have to look at a large basket of items, sure a bunch of hulls have gone up and down in price over the years, but many of the fittings have mainly trended down. And as I said in an earlier post many of the t2/salvage/pi markets got jacked up with the Moon mining changes, that’s going to be a short run blip, long run I expect the prices to start heading down again.

I’m not gonna debate if it does or doesn’t happen because I don’t know one way or the other. Personally I don’t care what sort of stats CCP would present, nobody can verify it and because of that, CCP can say whatever they want. I merely stated there are tools available to easily get rid of -10 security status and that criminal actions are done by characters regardless of their security status. You assume a lot by speaking for all gankers in the game when you say it will never happen.

The fact that hardly anybody runs the sites is mainly due to crap rewards and secondly, those sites force players to do mining. Now why is that? Why is CCP so hell bent on having players do mining? More importantly why make it require a fleet op to complete those sites? Now if those sites had great rewards like the other event sites, then a lot more players would be doing them. And if that was the case, there would be some sort of awox / gank attempts being done on those running the sites, despite the accelerator gate restrictions to gain entry. Why? Because there would be a fleet of mining ships all gathered together in one place that’s easily located. Basically we’re talking fish in a barrel.

Adding Resource Wars to the game because players wanted more Social PvE content in Eve? Maybe my Tinfoil hat is on a bit tight right now but that just sounds like a crock. And those 30 players who said it at a previous roundtable don’t represent the playerbase, they definitely don’t represent me or the player I know. Hell I can easily find 30 players to say they want more solo PvE content.

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The events are still the single most profitable PvE in highsec, including all of their aspects. Plus they require minimal effort, undock, run site, snatch reward, dock up, 5-10min.

I don’t see a decline in popularity, rather the opposite, uncontested sites in my area are rare even late in the events. … before people want to give me advice, I run them on purpose in the most crowded areas because site completion time is much faster and I get the loot anyway.

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I did try them. It cost me 88 million isk, so I will not do them again.

Which ships would you include it that?

I did. Turns out 536700857657956767567256956706 characters on grid confuse me too much and I cannot focus anymore.
Those incursion Sanshas are so very weird and do things only blood raiders or guristas would and a few of them do more damage than a 500 character machariel gang.

Only if you can complete them. My agent does not want me to complete them but go on a roam in lowsec. 12 jumps is a long way and on my way there, I make 0 isk per hour or any time frame.
I still have little to no use for my millions of LP and I will not move to high populated areas.

You mean, since one guy sold all of its 2 SOE LP for 400 trillion isk, it is now they way of doing things.
There is no other. Everyone must comply. If you do not sell your LP for 400 trillion isk you suck so bad and should go home and biomass amirite.

Hey all, here’s the recording of the roundtable

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not 100% sold on that, sure when they have nice drops like the current event’s c3-x BCU they can remain valuable, but with most of the events the accelerator and skin values drop rapidly as the event goes on. Usually better off blitzing missions or running incursions and buying a few accelerators than running the sites.

it’s cost me more, I also have a series of cap stable fits that should be hard to lose. Can find them in this forum post. Burner Mission - Ship advice to solo them including fittings

Almost every ship has been buffed via ship tiericide, the pirate ships gained huge buffs along the way, and nearly every weapon system has gotten a positive balance patch at some point, damage boosts, cap reductions, range boosts, and the t2 ammo boosts. If we want to go way back most missions were in game before rigs were a thing, so just adding the rig slots was a pretty big buff to mission ships. There have been a few nerfs over that time too, but I feel in general mission ships have gotten stronger over time.

can’t blame you there, I tried some myself and wasn’t a fan.

yea the burner spawn’s are a bit wonky, can go to the next constellation so it’s a lot easier to end up in lowsec compared to normal missions. It also tries to find empty systems so it will probably try and send you to that lowsec often.

You can check the market history for prices and trade volume and figure out what the historical isk/lp conversions have been. The LP store costs don’t change, and the mineral basket to build items usually stays pretty constant, but if you really wanted you could calculate it with those prices included too.

SOE has mostly been between 1200-2000 isk/lp Right now it’s mostly in the 1200-1500 range.

you used to have to build your own spreadsheet to figure out isk/lp but now https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/lpstore/ does it all for you. It’s usually accurate but can have some lag if prices are rapidly changing.

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Cheers man, appreciate it.

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I listened to the roundtable and there’s something I would like to talk about the scout sites that hasn’t been mentionned.

I personaly don’t mind the logis, with one to 3 ships I can shoot through as long as the target is correcly slowed down and focused, but I have a big issue with the ECM ships. Scout sites are for 3 to 5 five players, but you can have up to 3 ECM ships against you in scout sites. Any kind of remote rep/cp is horrible to do, leaving purely self-repairing drone ships or marauder viable imo, which is not at all how the vanguard assault and HQ work.

A minor thing to add is that there is bit too much HP to munch through on average, takes more time for less isk with less choices of fleet viable to run them

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Finally done listening to the roundtable. My thoughts:

  • Resource Wars:

    • Definitely a reward problem (having items that are useful like faction mining crystals would be cool instead of overpriced T1 items)
    • Having something for combat pilot to really contribute instead of “just bring a mining ship to optimize the site” would be better
  • Improving social PvE

    • Empire chats for RW would be good
    • Entry level content to help people learn the mechanics on TQ instead of going to SiSi to learn to how to run FOB and Incursions. Missions go smoothly from L1 to L4 and you can get confident at one level before trying the next. More approachable would be good, for scout sites and pirate “beachheads” (small POS?), where you can get used to the NPCs, the change of AI, etc.
  • The Agency

    • Make the map optional so it does not slow down interactions
    • Make sure it reproduces the functions it replaces completely or links to them instead of taking them out.
  • FOBs/Sotiyos

    • As above, a “pirate beachhead” would be cool to learn about the dynamic defence fleets and new AI
    • Keep the miners, defence fleets, etc. If it annoys people, they might be willing to ship up and remove them or hire people to do so. Maybe make sure miner defence fleets only show up to defend miners!
    • Making defence fleets not infinite and giving them bounties so they are worth killing instead of just bashing the structure while repping through the damage would make the content more interacting.
  • Missions

    • Adding more missions to the pool would change nothing. You still just look it up on eve-survival and afk run it.
    • Randomization would make it more engaging since you have to pay attention to what’s coming and react.
    • To not make the “predictable mission” crowd go nuts by adding dynamic missions, just make them like burner missions: you can opt out.
    • Secondary objectives in missions: wipe out all enemies instead of blitz, pick up some items from a specific ship that can spawn anywhere but needs to be tackled otherwise it warps off when damaged.
    • Invest into new PvE or “missions upkeep”? New PvE that takes advantage of the new AI
    • Procedural missions would be very cool, even if it is randomly putting pre-set rooms one after the other through gates
    • “Difficulty by inconvenient” can work, if you make it better to fit a “take all-comers” fit on your mission BS than to scout and refit to optimize. One way would be by making each room vary, so you’d have to refit every room (really annoying), or just bite the bullet and find a fit that can keep up with everything (Hey! Marauders might become useful again with all their utility highs and crazy tanks freeing other slots!)

FOBs do not spawn on SiSi

I just warped to one on SiSi, you should check them out :slight_smile:

Why? Do you want to earn isk or losing isk by trail by fire on your quest to make your tackle fit work under pressure.

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I stated that as an example of optional objectives. You chose which:

  • Don’t want to compromise your fit to add a point, don’t do it: Just shoot at the ship a few times and it’ll warp off.
  • Think you can get a bit of extra money from it? Just want a challenge in your mission? Do it with a point fitted, get in range, kill and loot ship, proceed to complete mission.

You can chose to sacrifice either tank, cap, application, (or whatever else you get from your mids) or the reward (by not completing the optional objective).

Might be it took you so much extra time with the “point fit” that it wasn’t worth it, well… lesson learned! Don’t try again, or try again with a different fit next time. Might be you got it right and the optional objective was worth it! Might be you just had fun hunting that ship and that’s really all that matters. Might be you had a newb friend who could fly a gank cruiser with a point, so he came along and now you share greater rewards than if you solo’d it but ignored the prize ship.

It’s an option, you decide if you want to do it or not. If it is balanced right, whether it is worth it or not will depend on players and play styles. (I know, I know… balance is hard and all that… but we’re shooting ideas on how to make PvE better, anything new will have to be balanced, in fact even the old things probably need to be too, so whatever)

In fact, most missions already have one optional objective: Killing all NPCs. Blitzers don’t complete it because they can get more rewards by just quickly completing missions. Others like to slaughter npc pirates and kill them all for the extra reward (bounties!). If they’re both having fun, neither are doing it wrong. So why not more variety than just “kill them all” or not (on missions that don’t specifically require you to kill them all, of course).

you mean after inflation? :stuck_out_tongue:

considering “prices in general … going down” is the definition of deflation, no not after inflation.

There’s basically been two big events that have caused prices to go up, the first being ship tiericide (which mostly just spiked minerals for a while), and the second being the recent moon mining change, which has mostly jacked up PI, Salvage, and Moon goo products.

There’s been a ton of smaller rebalances of things like moon goo, asteroid mineral comps, drop rates, and whatever else over the years. Might be fun to go through the patchnotes and try to see what got changed, for example Tyrannis has a pretty big primary/secondary spike, but the CPI didn’t move much.

You forgot the miner’s crying river which cause mineral prices to go up for no reason.

All this is “much talk about nothing” which social assembly in PVE. PVE and social interaction in one sentence is oxymoron !!! For PVE give us tasks and then give us a REVARD.

All problem with RW is lack of rewards all other reason are emptay talks. For PVE today we have only mining, exploaration and some missions and they are here for years because of revards. CCP try to introduce new PVE content without revards because it is scred to ruin the balance and at the end when all carebers and pve-ers go avay what will pvp - ers do in empty space.
Big corporation patch their needs with bots but they are covered by their people in councile and they are “untouchables”

Give right revards for PVE and forget XXXXXX balance !!!

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You don’t have to be -10 to suicide gank someone. You can have any sec status.

But you already knew that.

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