When I ran lvl4 I don’t remember making 200mil/hr, must of been doing something wrong.
Then again I wasn’t using a mach or rattle or a Marauder. Guess a Raven navy issue doesn’t cut it.
I think they are talking about their imagined sales of LP and are assuming the LP store I work for has stuff that is worth selling.
The thing is this LP store has stuff but the tags you would need to get the stuff drop nowhere in the game, so my 3 million LP won’t do you much but help me get a +3 or +5% implant every now and then.
So there is this one guy in EVE that sells every LP for 6 trillion isk or something are calculates some 5000000 bazillion isk per second in revenue, now EVERYONE will do this since there is no other way and when he does it, EVERYONE does it and since EVERYONE earns 5000000 bazillion isk per second, 500 million isk HACs are much cheap or something.
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There are a lot of factors determining the price of things in EvE, one is the demand. Feroxes are in higher demand because they are effective in fleets in today’s EvE meta. But there is certainly no relationship to ‘nerfed rewards’.
Rather the opposite is true. Making ISK through PvE became that easy and mass ready, that a lot more players don’t care about prices anymore. The result of a mature game and skill injectors.
IMO … and that brings me back on topic … there should be more competition on the ISK faucets as we have them on the non-ISK-faucet PvE (mining, exploration, clone tags, …).
Finally, could this game live without (major) ISK faucets and sinks?
The reward for Rescuing the Damsel has not changed since missions were first placed into the game.
In terms of what the mission paid then and what the reward affords now are disparity.
The cost of ships, drones and munitions are tied to availability of minerals. Since 2010 there have been changes to how minerals are obtains. Largely through multiple nerfs;
- removal of Meta zero module drops from NPC. (now scraps)
- removal of drone alloy drops
- a couple of nerfs to ScrapMetal reprocessing skill
Which puts a demand mining and a price rise. There was a time when miners to told to missions when they complained about next to worthlessness of veldspar.
Ship worth is tied to market forces. Missions are not.
Being able to blitz missions for 200mil is not really relevant; when the individual mission reward is static.
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And, yet, the facts say otherwise.
The addition of missions which pay out far greater rewards than those found in 2010 is directly relevant to the topic.
It’s simple. Can you blitz mining missions or courier missions. No. The Mining Mission “Gas Injections” pays 1.1 mil for completion and 6,000 LP (900k for Bonus). It has always paid this. (variation of location security will have variance, of course). Try thinking outside the box. NPC bounties do even enter into this equation. There are no new missions in Couriering or Mining either. (not asking, just saying)
Having this influenced/indexed by the market also presents the ability of income to decline.
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One particular aspect I would like to see tabled with CCP is Standings. Historically Standing conferred several benefits, but the value of having Standing with a faction has been eroded. Jump Clones and Anchorage Rights no longer have bearing. Steve Ronuken had previously talked about this, iirc. But I would like to see the topic revisited with CCP.
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Oh yes please, both positive and negative standings should have effects with npc’s.
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The best approach would be to have a PvE balance team constantly monitoring and adjusting content in a systematic way, but if that isn’t in the cards the second best is the ‘Rorqual stratagem’ and just release all new PvE content in a super over-buffed state to get players to do it. Let them figure it out, come up with the min-max strategies, and then tune it down three or six months later to something more in keeping with the effort vs. reward and risk vs. reward balance of the other options on the table. Otherwise, the inertia of choosing the safe and known over the new and risky will doom most new content to a slow death. There will be some grumbling, but if you time the reduction in payout with the release of some new, overbuffed content, the players consuming the leading edge of content will move on to the new shiny.
Only 152 more posts, (at present,) to read, but I wanted to post this before going off to eat.
I think another way to do this would be an automated reward auction. Let the rewards automatically decrease as things get popular, and increase as they become unpopular again. Tuning THAT so it doesn’t reward any form of “market manipulation” might be difficult, though.
Then imagine the windfall as you find a long forgotten portion of the game, complete it, and find yourself a good chunk of a billion ISK richer. But, going back, after bragging about it, and the rewards aren’t as high. Even not bragging about it, the reward would taper off quickly, as the number of times completed in the last rolling month goes from 1, to 2, (half), to 3 (.66 of the last time,…) etc.
So long as the offerings are global, and not something one group could dominate by merely dominating a small patch of space, and I think this would work.
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Getting random people to group up in Eve is hard because THIS IS EVE, its motto is trust no-one! (I have no idea how to fix this btw)
I think the reason why Resource Wars isn’t popular is because of Suicide Gank Fleets.
A level one allows anyone to access the site regardless of standings. This allows two man gank alt fleets to recruit Rookie Alpha players in Ventures to their fleet to provide protection while they mine.
Then out of nowhere the Alpha is ganked, the gankers laugh, collect the tears and then move on.
Resource Wars would be a popular PvE environment if the gankers of New Eden weren’t trying to control all mining operations to satisfy their need to do nothing more than blob ships in High Sec.
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I’ve never seen evidence that a single ship has ever been ganked in a Resource Wars site. The sites are gated, which means -10 criminals cannot enter and reach a target without the faction police exploding them. They are like mining mission sites in that regard, essentially immune from criminals.
The bigger issue is that practically no one, new player or veteran, is running the sites. That has more to do with the rewards than the risk of attack, given they are pretty much the safest sites in the game right now.
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You can steal their special mission ore with a mining laser, pew pew pew.
Actually, one of my most memorable early ganks was in a mining site. I went in and started bumping the Mack and after a few minutes the miner returned to their keyboard and fled. I then cloaked and camped the site mashing D-scan, and like the greedy miner he was, it wasn’t 5 minutes before he warped back to the site. I timed the warp-in perfectly and we landed together on the mission warp-in and some PvP followed. Needless to say, I won that battle and claimed both a glorious victory and the spoils of that battle which included some of that useless mission ore I believe the same guy bought back from my contract a few hours later.
However to the topic, I don’t think this gambit is even viable in a Resources Wars site. Even if you get in and bump the target enough to spook them from the site, they probably won’t come back given the time pressure of the site.
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I think the main point about resource wars is that it is a boring grind for pointless rewards.
There is simply no reason to do them.
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The lack of an effective reward structure pretty much killed them as sustainable PvE yeah. I thought we had that nailed like 50 posts ago.
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Show me a person who died in the manner you described here please, as this is something I’ve never heard of being attempted at all - Even @Black_Pedro who I consider a fairly good source of knowledge on ‘fun interdiction’ hasn’t talked about this method, specifically laying out his own original tactics for disrupting this activity previously in the thread. I’m always interested in finding out how people are engaged in non-consensual PvP (as I prefer it to be something that precautions can be taken against, though never truly avoided), if you do not have an example then this is just random speculation that doesn’t actually serve to drive the conversation forwards.
Also, a reminder to get yourself into the discord that’s linked in the original post, as I look forwards to talking about these topics in voice comms as originally intended - The forum thread here has been incredibly informative, but producing a short, comprehensive layout of the problems with PvE currently that I can shove at members of CCP is one of the main reasons I like doing these roundtables 
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He got ganked by CODE running The Hunt, now CODE is the source of all evil, failures and… everything but rainbows and unicorns. I don’t think anyone considers resource wars sites “dangerous” gank wise, especially since a ganker would have to grind standings to get into sites above L1. And camping gates to gank ships going in… well… nobody is going in, so that would be a very boring camp.
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A couple more “nerfs” which probably directly effect price.
One, the risk of mining AFK, due to CODE, will have raised prices somewhat. This is offset by dedicated mining frigates and barges.
The (probably continued) presence of bot-ratting, which gets ISK as a reward.
Calling such practices an ISK printer is a valid comparison to the devaluation effects of wide-spread counterfeiting of physical, real-world, currency.
I recall when another game dealt with a race-condition duping exploit by erasing every credit that had been created via that approach, regardless of what wallet it then set in, a lot of wallets got a lot lighter and prices went back down.
I am sorry but the is EVE client time right?