Pyfa Character Editor - Day 1 Newbro and Maxed Alpha Skill Lists

Okay, so I frequently find myself trying to design newbro friendly fits. Unfortunately, pyfa doesn’t have any pre-set character skill sets that are useful for this task (you can only set All 0 or All 5). It will, however, allow you create custom custom characters. Moreover, it let’s you import and export skill lists so that you don’t have to manually adjust all their skills. So, here are two custom skill sets that I find useful. Hopefully, they’ll help out all the theory crafters out there.

Do note that there is some variation between what the starting newbro’s get, but I don’t think any of that should make any difference to fitting. For example, they might start with mechanics at a different level depending on race, but everyone starts with the same fitting and cap skills. So, you can safely use this skill set to design for all newbros.

Skill levels taken from the Eve University Wiki. If you find any problems, let me know.

Day 1 Newbro

Afterburner 3
Archaeology 1
Astrometric Acquisition 1
Astrometric Rangefinding 1
Astrometrics 3
CPU Management 4
Capacitor Management 3
Capacitor Systems Operation 3
Controlled Bursts 1
Cybernetics 1
Drone Avionics 1
Drones 1
Electronic Warfare 1
Electronics Upgrades 3
Energy Grid Upgrades 1
Evasive Maneuvering 1
Gunnery 4
Hacking 1
High Speed Maneuvering 1
Hull Upgrades 2
Long Range Targeting 2
Mechanics 2
Mining Frigate 1
Missile Launcher Operation 1
Motion Prediction 2
Navigation 3
Power Grid Management 4
Propulsion Jamming 1
Rapid Firing 2
Science 3
Sharpshooter 2
Shield Management 1
Shield Upgrades 1
Signature Analysis 2
Spaceship Command 3
Survey 3
Tactical Shield Manipulation 1
Target Management 3
Trajectory Analysis 1
Warp Drive Operation 3
Weapon Upgrades 2

Max Alpha

Acceleration Control 3
Advanced Weapon Upgrades 3
Afterburner 3
Amarr Battlecruiser 4
Amarr Battleship 4
Amarr Cruiser 4
Amarr Destroyer 4
Amarr Drone Specialization 2
Amarr Frigate 4
Amarr Industrial 1
Anchoring 1
Archaeology 3
Armor Layering 1
Armor Rigging 3
Astrometric Acquisition 2
Astrometric Rangefinding 2
Astrometrics 3
Astronautics Rigging 3
Biology 3
Broker Relations 2
Caldari Battlecruiser 4
Caldari Battleship 4
Caldari Cruiser 4
Caldari Destroyer 4
Caldari Drone Specialization 2
Caldari Frigate 4
Caldari Industrial 1
Capacitor Emission Systems 4
Capacitor Management 4
Capacitor Systems Operation 3
Connections 2
Controlled Bursts 4
Corporation Management 1
CPU Management 5
Criminal Connections 2
Cruise Missiles 4
Cybernetics 3
Diplomacy 3
Distribution Connections 2
Drone Avionics 4
Drone Durability 4
Drone Interfacing 3
Drone Navigation 4
Drone Sharpshooting 4
Drones 5
Drones Rigging 3
Electronic Superiority Rigging 3
Electronic Warfare 4
Electronics Upgrades 5
EM Armor Compensation 2
EM Shield Compensation 2
Energy Grid Upgrades 5
Energy Pulse Weapons 2
Energy Weapon Rigging 3
Evasive Maneuvering 3
Explosive Armor Compensation 2
Explosive Shield Compensation 2
Gallente Battlecruiser 4
Gallente Battleship 4
Gallente Cruiser 4
Gallente Destroyer 4
Gallente Drone Specialization 2
Gallente Frigate 4
Gallente Industrial 1
Gas Cloud Harvesting 2
Guided Missile Precision 3
Gunnery 5
Hacking 3
Heavy Assault Missile Specialization 3
Heavy Assault Missiles 5
Heavy Drone Operation 3
Heavy Missile Specialization 3
Heavy Missiles 5
High Speed Maneuvering 3
Hull Upgrades 5
Hybrid Weapon Rigging 3
Industry 5
Infomorph Psychology 1
Jury Rigging 3
Kinetic Armor Compensation 2
Kinetic Shield Compensation 2
Large Energy Turret 4
Large Hybrid Turret 4
Large Projectile Turret 4
Launcher Rigging 3
Leadership 3
Light Drone Operation 5
Light Missile Specialization 3
Light Missiles 5
Long Range Targeting 3
Marketing 2
Mass Production 3
Mechanics 5
Medium Artillery Specialization 3
Medium Autocannon Specialization 3
Medium Beam Laser Specialization 3
Medium Blaster Specialization 3
Medium Drone Operation 4
Medium Energy Turret 5
Medium Hybrid Turret 5
Medium Projectile Turret 5
Medium Pulse Laser Specialization 3
Medium Railgun Specialization 3
Mining 4
Mining Connections 2
Mining Frigate 4
Mining Upgrades 4
Minmatar Battlecruiser 4
Minmatar Battleship 4
Minmatar Cruiser 4
Minmatar Destroyer 4
Minmatar Drone Specialization 2
Minmatar Frigate 4
Minmatar Industrial 1
Missile Bombardment 4
Missile Launcher Operation 5
Missile Projection 2
Motion Prediction 4
Navigation 4
Negotiation 2
Power Grid Management 5
Projectile Weapon Rigging 3
Propulsion Jamming 4
Rapid Firing 4
Rapid Launch 4
Reactions 1
Remote Armor Repair Systems 3
Remote Hull Repair Systems 2
Repair Drone Operation 2
Repair Systems 5
Reprocessing 3
Rocket Specialization 3
Rockets 5
Salvaging 3
Science 4
Security Connections 2
Sensor Linking 3
Sharpshooter 4
Shield Compensation 4
Shield Emission Systems 3
Shield Management 4
Shield Operation 4
Shield Rigging 3
Shield Upgrades 4
Signature Analysis 3
Small Artillery Specialization 3
Small Autocannon Specialization 3
Small Beam Laser Specialization 3
Small Blaster Specialization 3
Small Energy Turret 5
Small Hybrid Turret 5
Small Projectile Turret 5
Small Pulse Laser Specialization 3
Small Railgun Specialization 3
Social 3
Spaceship Command 4
Surgical Strike 4
Survey 3
Tactical Shield Manipulation 4
Target Management 4
Target Navigation Prediction 3
Target Painting 3
Thermal Armor Compensation 2
Thermal Shield Compensation 2
Thermodynamics 4
Torpedoes 4
Trade 3
Trajectory Analysis 4
Warhead Upgrades 3
Warp Drive Operation 3
Weapon Disruption 4
Weapon Upgrades 5

6 Likes

I did a non-scientific test myself.

I made an alpha alt without SP enhancement or free SP from events etc
and with all skills he could have no higher than 3.

He can fly a massive amount of ships and only has 3.5m odd skill points.

It also didnt take as long as I thought.

1 Like

This was a rant before I deleted it.
I’m sorry.

I don’t see the point of what you’re doing.
You’re just ruining it for them.

Players who will never ever go through the experience of learning things for themselves because assholes think it’s help completely preventing even the idea that they might be better off learning how to think for themselves.

That’s right. The fact that there is supply of pre-determined skills, fittings etc. is a majorly contributing factor. There is no need to think for ones self.

The whole experience of exploring how this ■■■■ works is being diminished, if not removed, by the idea and fact that skill-lists, fittings, etc. etc. are not just being actively presented, but that everyone’s being encouraged to use them instead of thinking for ones self.

No one out there considers that this will always put them at a disadvantage compared to those who learn this ■■■■ from the ground up. You’re not really learning anything properly when it’s being fed to you, because there simply is no need to learn.

The lack of depth which can be had from exploring something ones self is completely missing.

It’s this idea that people need help …
… which ultimately leads to people needing help …
… because there’s an abundant supply of this said “help” …
… which is ultimately bypassing any need of exploring and learning these things.

Wow, I guess it’s still a rant!

I’ve looked at the Day 1 Newbro list.
It’s sad. ■■■■■■■ sad.

I’m old. Joined late 2009.
I miss CCP SoundWave.
That’s all.

-.-

Six edits! Sheesh!

Sorry!

1 Like

Okay, so …
… let’s get actually practical !

I don’t want you to think I’m just speaking out of my ass.

I believe that what you’re doing is harmful for the game …
… and I believe that my approach is far superior
… and I can ■■■■■■■ prove it.

I’m definitely not going to write down everything
… but hopefully enough to get the ■■■■■■■ point across.


Sol’s practical guide to EVE ONLINE. Some part of it, at least.

First of all, please understand that this guide is meant to improve your gaming experience FIRST and performance only second. For everyone else it’s the opposite. Those are the normies. They might not be bad people, but they’re average, boring, exploitable and - most importantly - they’re your prey.

With that out of the way …

Always skill for faster alignment FIRST!
No one suggests that. They’re all too disconnected from what matters.

You’re going to move around A LOT. I really mean A LOT. The earlier you’ve improved the time it takes to turn and accelerate even by just a little bit, the better! You’ll spend HOURS warping around! Every single ■■■■■■■ time your ship’s going to align towards the destination. Every single ■■■■■■■ time it’s going to take you several seconds before you even enter warp.

By skilling for better alignment, you’ll get everywhere quicker than the others and it will stay that way for a while simply because they have NO idea how slow they really are!

Most people seem to be following a pre-determined path. That path is being laid out by those who believe they know what you should do and how you should be doing it. They don’t really offer choices. They don’t improve your experience. They want to put you onto a train, on which they want you to see and experience the exact same things everyone else is seeing and experiencing.

■■■■ those guys.

It gives people a huge disadvantage, because they not only never learn to think for themselves, they make their choices more predictable.

What it’s all about is that you have a ship and you want to do something. It’s a waste of time skilling anything that you don’t need, especially as a rookie. Don’t believe it? Just look at the beginning of this little guide. The first thing you do is moving. So what should you be improving first? Exactly!

As a rookie it makes perfect sense to just “skill as you go”, because most of the things you’re going to skill you’re going to need later anyway. How practical!

The differences between “skilling as you go” and “skilling along a pre-determined path” are quite game-altering. In one you skill what you need and learn to figure out what it actually is that you need, PLUS you actually pay attention to the changes when your skill is completed.

In the other you’re disconnected from what’s going on. You’re disconnected from a part of your playing experience. You plug the skill in and just keep doing what you’re supposed to be doing. Skill-plans are ultimately always going to push you into a certain direction.

The same goes for fitting your ships. People just copy what’s out there, because everyone else is using it. The thing is, though, that when you know how to actually properly fit a ship, then all you need to do is looking at their killboard to figure out how to counter-fit against their ship.

People out there use generic omni-tank fittings, which means that it’s dumb to fit generic omni-tank fittings. Why would you fit against explosive damage, when you’re going to attack an amarrian ship with lasers? Same goes for attacking random people. Why would you do that?

You fit your ship for the job and you stick to that job. The rest doesn’t matter. When you fit against amarrian damage (EM/TH) then you’re going to attack amarrian ships.

Guess who’s going to win? The guy who wastes slot tanking all damage types, or the guy who tanks the damage type of the opponent?

Many people will also tell you that you should concentrate on your tanking skills. Shields, Armor, Hull. While they’re not wrong, it’s not necessary to put any significant emphasis on them in your first week or two. You’ll figure that one out really fast, too!

While every other rookie is getting his ass blasted out of his ship, because his oh-so-greatly-increased tanking skills failed him because he was too slow aligning out, you’ve already left. It doesn’t matter if your shield operation skill is at three or four when you’re too ■■■■■■■ slow to get the ■■■■ out.


There. This was in no way or form exhaustive and off the top of my head. I can write for days about all the ■■■■ I’ve learned in this game, about what’s practical, what doesn’t make sense, how to have advantages over others.

I wrote this just to prove that I actually know why I’m writing what I’m writing, and to show that there are better ways of actually helping people, namely by teaching them how to help themselves. That’s not what you’re doing. At all.

All this stuff is not being taught anywhere! It’s not my knowledge, it’s all the knowledge and actual, practical experience that’s being drowned out by exactly those mediocre people who can’t think for themselves, who keep spreading this poison of mindlessness. It’s like Zombies creating even more zombies, who then create even more zombies.

The sole reason why this game isn’t fun is because everyone’s trying so ■■■■■■■ hard to make it easier for people to get in, discouraging intellectual exploration of what is probably the single deepest game in video game history!

Instead of attracting and retaining intellectually curious people by providing an environment where they can explore and think for themselves, you’re attracting and retaining those who can’t. No, you’re not helping changing that AT ALL.

Of course there’s exceptions, but that doesn’t change that this is what this kind of ■■■■ leads to.

If you want to help people, you should focus on the experience and not on their performance. As long as you focus on the performance, you will NOT EVER actually help them. Will you raise retention? Sure, yeah! I’m not denying that at all! But are you actually helping them?

No, you’re ■■■■■■■ not!

What people need isn’t pre-chewed ■■■■ like skill-plans and community fittings, they need practical understanding of what’s going on and what truly matters, so they can figure out the rest for themselves quicker.

Because that’s what adds ■■■■■■■ DEPTH to the game. They can be actual characters, learning and exploring things for themselves. They can make mistakes. They can make bad choices. They’ll learn from experience.

That’s depth!

Skill-plans for characters and videos showing them how to do ■■■■ on the other hand …
… leading to players disconnectedly logging in to do a mini-game of exploration …
… or a mini-game of collecting loot in povchen …
… or a mini-game of running a mission they can now tank thanks to their skills …

… is NOT!

Okay, I’m not ignoring you. I’ll try to reply sometime within the next 24 hours.

1 Like

Is it a good idea to skill up using the Mastery tabs for each ship I want to fly?
Is it a good idea to skill into the modules I want and need to put into that ship according to the fits recommended in Help Chat?

Thank you for discussing this.

Yep. It was a rant before, and a different rant after. And pointless to boot.

You’re basically just looking for things to rant on. “Nobody should be given any help or information or guidance and then the game will be better because everyone re-inventing every wheel for themselves forever is the way to go!”.

Seriously, what are you even arguing about? Nobody is saying newbros need help, or can’t figure things out for themselves. Any new player who wants to figure things out can do so. Any new player or vet who wants to look up a quick resource so they can get back to playing without endlessly duplicating the work someone else has already done can do so.

Newbros are already at a massive disadvantage because vets know every tool, every resource, have connections in the game, more skills, more resources, and more experience, and compete directly with newbros in every area.

I think that’s really your issue, Sol. You’re so worried that even newbros are going to outdo you and advance faster than you, that you hate the idea that any of them are being given a ‘faster start’ than you had.

It’s the complaint of the old and slow against the fast and young. You can do better.

1 Like

Mastery tabs are sort of a laundry list of ‘skills that some dev thought would be useful to have if you’re flying this ship’. They aren’t necessary, required, or even the best skills for the ship. They give you no bonus if you have them. Take them as a sort of checklist that you can look over and say “Oh hey I never looked at that skill, I’ll check it out and see if it might be useful”.

Being skilled for the modules is useful but you first want to be skilled for what’s called the “fitting skills” so you can put more and better modules on your ship. Capacitor, CPU, Power, Upgrades etc. Try getting the skills you need up to 3 first (quite quick), then get whatever is required up to 4, then look around and see if you need other things before trying to skill up to 5 (which takes much longer for the same amount of benefit).

4 Likes

Thank you for the tips.

lol. This post might have gotten a little long.

Different Ways to Learn

Just like in real life, there are different ways to learn in Eve. I personally tend to categorize them in three ways (You can probably ignore this list, as I don’t think it’s necessary for my argument):

Ways to Learn In Eve
  • Formal Instruction
    • Live Classes, Recorded Lectures, Articles, Blogs, Youtube Videos.
    • Information Dense
    • Highly Accurate
    • More Factual in Nature
    • Will Bore the Crap out of a Lot of Players
    • Lowest Risk Way to Learn (An intelligent man learns from his own mistakes, but a wise man learns from other people’s)
  • Informal Instruction
    • The communal knowledge that you pick up by talking to and playing with others
    • Knowledge can come piecemeal
    • Accuracy Can Vary
    • Often Includes Lots of Subjective Opinions
    • Not Boring Like Formal Instruction
    • Low Risk (Rather low risk, but you are more likely to get bad info that might bight you in the ass later).
  • Experience/Experimentation
    • Learning by doing and experience
    • Can learn a lot, but you have to have understand what’s going on to be able to learn from it
    • Often learn things that don’t get taught with formal instruction
    • Practice also improves execution
    • Most Exciting Way to Learn
    • High Risk

Naturally, each of these methods have different advantages and disadvantages, but they all have advantages, and different people will have different preferences for different types. More importantly, however, learning by one method doesn’t prevent that person from learning by other methods. Nor does the existence of one method prevent others from learning through their preferred methods.

You're Not Teaching People How To Think/Do for Themselves

So, this is something that I spoke about in my last post to you. Here’s an Excerpt.

Now, I don’t always explain everything in every video, as doing so would drastically increase my workload, and turn my videos into bloated messes that make it difficult for players to find the information that they actually came for. So, I have to assume that my viewers have at least a certain understanding of the game, so that I can build upon that understanding instead of getting bogged down in the minutia.

Second, newer players often don’t need in depth explanations of things like every fitting decision I made, because it would just be information overload. Sometimes, giving them a capable fit and telling them how to run content that they would otherwise stay away from is the best way to help them learn (and have fun). They’ll not only get the experience from participating in that content, but also start getting an idea for what good fits look like.

Now, you might say that they would be better served by learning things on their own, but this is not always the case -especially when a player would have not have even engaged with the content had they not been given instructions and/or assurance that they could do it. So, giving them that instruction might not have helped them to become fitting wizards, but it did help them to get out there and learn all the things that you tend to learn through experience (such as managing cap, maximizing damage application, securing loot drops when being contested, and so on.). Moreover, the Dreyfus Model of Skill Acquisition asserts that rigid adherence to taught rules is a natural step on the path to being able to think for one’s self.

Indeed, I started my Eve career by joining Eve University. And, aside from some early failboats of my own design, I got my fits from the Eve Wiki (back when they used to have fits). In spite of this, I am not reliant on others for my fits today. Nowadays, I make every fit I use, and am constantly trying to tweak them in order to improve upon them. I love making fits. I love theory crafting. And of course, I’m now making fits that other people use. So, was I harmed by being given those fits? Did they make me reliant on others for fits? Did they slow my growth? I don’t think so. In fact, I think it would have taken me even longer to figure out how to put together competent fits had I not been able to see what a crap ton of competent fits looked like. Lord knows how long it would have taken me to stop mixing long range and short range guns, and all the other stupid ■■■■ that I used to do.

Of course, there is a downside to learning from others, which I will get into later. I promise.

Not Everyone Wants to Learn

Another game I play is Warframe. Now, I could sit down and theory craft my own builds, and try to find my own optimal ways to grind for focus/standings/loot/whatever. But I don’t want to. Eve already scratches that itch for me. So when I play Warframe, I just want to be able to turn my brain off and collect my goodies while I watch Youtube or Netflix.

Without even asking, I know that there are Eve players that don’t want to learn everything there is to know about all the ships and mods, or have to have a deep understanding of the meta just so they can put together a fit that isn’t a complete failboat. They just want the answer so that they can get on with the part that they enjoy. And I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with that.

Schools of Thought

Okay, so learning from others (either through formal or informal methods) does have one drawback that I think that we can both agree on -namely, it can cause people to think in certain ways. For example, the teachings of Eve University probably contributes to a greater level of risk aversion in it’s alumni. Of course, they’re very good at teaching their members risk management strategies, which helps to minimize the number and severity of losses, but I think it also contributes to them thinking and acting in risk adverse ways. In fact, I think it’s no coincidence that the way I view risk is pretty much identical to how Azual Skoll (another Eve University Alumni) used to view risk.

Of course, Azual Skoll did eventually break his risk adverse habits. So, I guess the big question is how many Eve University alumni also increase their risk taking as they move up on the Dreyfus Model of Skill Acquisition, and how many remain risk adverse for the entirety of the careers?

Shorter Points

Okay, this is an absurd wall of text, so I’m not going to spend a lot of time on this stuff.

  • I don’t think tutorial videos limit options, I think they expand upon them. They show more of what this game has to offer, tells people that they can do it, and tells them how they can get started. Of course, there does seem to be a shortage of videos on certain activities, so you could argue that they do do some funneling. But the game is far worse (career agents funnel a lot of players into missioning and mining, and the agency largely ignores PvP). Thus, I think player created resources open up the possibilities.
  • Have you considered making content that you believe will help players?
  • Skill-plans don’t push you into a certain direction. Players decide what direction they want to go in, and then either make their own plan, or follow someone else’s. lol. Like, no one starts a skill plan all willy nilly, and then 2 years later are like, “■■■■, I ended up with a titan pilot!”
  • And, I don’t think it really matters, but I wasn’t actually providing anyone with a skill plan. The first list consists of the skill levels that brand new characters start with, and the second is the maximum skill levels that an alpha can achieve. So, they’re not actually a skill plan that any player should follow. Their only function is to help theory crafters to be able to design fits for alphas.

I’ve accidentially sent it prematurely … I think I tabbed and hit ENTER.
I hope it’s coherent. I can’t put more time into it.

edit:

Removed it entirely.
Will finish it when I have the time.

The mastery tab is one of the best ideas in the game.

It’s said very often in Eve that SP means nothing overall when you allot them properly. There are many stories of 6 month players besting 10 year vets in the right conditions. For example, if I tried to fly Amarr even with 90 million SP somebody using the tabs for 6 months to a year would probably roast me on a spit.

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