at the cost of 60% loss on their LP.
That’s already the case. People could always get excavator for concord LP.
However the value of doing specific faction is that you make a lot more LP/hour working for their agents rather than working as concord’s dog.
If it was “all” I’d be quite happy for such a change to happen. 112,500 concord LP to get the 45,000 ORE LP per strip miner. At 7k LP per site, and a sustainable average of 4 sites per hour to 9 in a perfect comp with winning contests every site… 4ish hours of farming incursions per strip miner. on the low end to 2ish on the high end. If ORE LP is worth 5k/LP or more, that’s potentially a seperate issue, because that’s roughly the ceiling set by concord LP conversion.
i did incursions with armor fleet , they were the best , dps tank baby , music bot , and sassy, best brit sexy voice chick in eve , i was in love man , good times
we used to do Vanguard sites , it was awesome , we were top of the line
i luv my nightmare
miss you guys S3
its like social isolation you have to be away from the rest of the world in a f up random system
dont have anything against incursion groups , they are very well organized and need brains
some time ago you can say they earn to much isk , but the game has changed and now they are super ok imho
Male cow poop. The very participation of so many players is a random event. Even if it would have been true, and all events in the incursion site were exactly same, it is simply not possible to execute same tactic every time perfectly. And the more people participate, the more random value is introduced, especially in EVE, where (comparing to other dungeon crawling games) you can not affect NPC behavior directly. But being a PvE player myself, I seriously doubt your claim that incursions are 100% same every time. And thus I question your qualification to raise objections to the topic.
There is one site, the worst for isk/hr, in HQs that is 100% the same spawns and same spots every time.
They still toss different numbers each time, so different ships take off differently, obiting in different ways, even if you toss in a single ship first so that there is no chance of them deciding to start by shooting multiple things.
FYI, in WTM, the average ship cost is most certainly under a bil. Maybe 20% will bling their ships, but most of them spend in the 2-3 bil range, with A FEW getting up to the 5 bil range. I don’t know if players from the elite communities are seeing a lot ships approaching 10bil, but I doubt it. My guess is this is just another misconception. A few knuckleheads have lost stupid expensive ships, people saw the killboards, and then were like, “wow, Incursioners are flying 10bil ships!” Anyway, the average incursion runner across all communities probably spends a comparable amount to T5 abyssal runners.
unless your sensible and fly logi which is likely less than 500mil 
Incursion is one of few group PvE activities where the “group” part is mandatory aside from very few special snowflakes that (used to) multibox rattlesnakes. Requiring several players to organize and act together is quite a jump in “difficulty” so the rewards have to be appropriate but even then solo blitzing L4 missions in HS can pay more than incursions (per player)… So what exactly is there to nerf?
People like to make it so it must be nerfed. That’s all the point is.
Strangely enough once I was given a a-type EANM because my faction modules were potentially making logis not able to catch up on me.
I still feel guilty and would like to give it back because I stopped the incursion but can’t find which person did give it to me.
At the time it was like 1B/module so I guess everybody was using them along their faction magstabs, that would be 2B from EANM + 300M times 3 from magstabs + 200M times 2 from TC so 3b3 from the modules only.
add in the vindi hull price + the rigs, you can reach 4b3, with drugs etc(not implants) I guess 4b was the usual.
Different communities have different fitting standards and thus different minimum cost. Armor implies TDF, who have become quite high priced at their entry level generally, and have a much stronger social expectation to shiny up to a higher point on the diminishing returns on their ships, with the expectation of faction lows and deadspace tank as standard for their regulars, rather than “high end”
When I did them we also accepted one or two “newbros” in T1 BS, max, per fleet.
I’m not saying it’s good/bad, just stating that the entry point was actually pretty low and it was really a very social experience.
ive done incursions for several years in multiple groups, even had a small 10 man group i helped fc. Incursions are easy, safe, and lucrative. my VG fleet i used to do only had 1 logi. every site is the same thing my small fleet didnt even need commands after warm up and we were beating the large popular groups in time that 1 of the groups brought 20 pilot fleet into a vg site to contest us and win after failing several contest trying to push us out the system.
The only reason i havent done them is ive been living in africa for 3 years with horrible connection, and i avoid toxic FCs. We had 1 FC in TVP that as soon as he took over he was screaming at the top of his lungs hat everyone simply left the fleet, had another FC that was yelling at everyone for being poors and not having officer modules since he was given 3 officer magstabs on his vindi…so he got ganked for it.
I have flown with ISN quite some years ago… comfy ride all the way, but blingy fits were a requirement (secondary fits had Pith B-type invulns or Gist A-types, primary ones had Pith A-types only). Too bad they have declined over time 
So you didn’t watch the right video? 
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Sorry, one of my pet hates. 
Other people: Eve is a PVP game
Me: Heard of CONTESTS???
The parallel I always see here is with the Speedrunning group, a group that speedruns a video game to get the fastest completion possible.
In a way, yes, a lot of brilliant people who put a lot of time and effort in, have found strats to significantly decrease the time it takes to finish a game, and even more people have optimized that strat to make it easier to acheive.
But on the flipside, if youre just a casual runner who wants to try speedrunning, the strats are already listed. Yes, you may need to see a couple youtube vids and maybe try them out a couple times yourself, but in terms of effort and time, it doesnt take much to accomplish a sub-par completion time.
With incursions, yes, the people who first ran it, the people who were trying to optimize it, did put in a lot of hard work and time and effort. But now, its easy. If youre not looking for a better way to run incursions, if youre not trying to change the meta, if youre just running it, then all the information is already out there, where you can google and bring up a website that tells you everything, from what to do, what ship types spawn, and what to shoot at.
In other words, its no longer dangerous and difficult. We stand on the shoulders of giants, and now we can reach the cookie jar with ease.
From what is written in this thread is that Incursions has:
It would appear that even tho Incursions are “solved” content, the risk vs reward appears to be in line, and should just be left alone.
You see this is a prime example were people from outside the incursion communities looking in. Think they know what they are talking about but in reality don’t have a clue. The meta is constantly being changed from patch to patch, the aggro mechanics keep getting fiddled with by CCP. The optimal fleet comp is always changing. Recently it was leaning much more towards using Leshak. Now with the recent changes the Vindi + plusemare could be king.
There also a continues flow of new people coming into incursions that have to be trained up to replace the burnt outs or people that just move on. Now that might not sound like that big a deal but it really is. If you take out a fleet of newbro that don’t have a clue what they’re doing you’ll be looking at making 60/90 mill an hour at most. You’ll also not only increase the chances of losing people you’re also massively increasing the chances of whelping a fleet.
Also running a 40 man fleet efficiently and safely with a bunch of randoms. That are always being infiltrated by people that wish to do them harm isn’t easy, as it’s a public fleet. All the while, while having to deal with near 100k dps at times and constant contests.
Contest also should not be underestimated. If you try to run anything other than a TPPH which is a terribly long site with 3 rooms which can take anything from 12 to 20+ minutes to run the chance are you will be contested.
A contest is two fleets go into a site, the one that does the most damage gets the payout the other gets nothing. Also the fleet that keeps getting beat usually gets forced into running nothing but the TPPH, which no one wants to run. While the other fleet gets to run all the good sites NRF (10 minute) and TCRC (5/6 minute).
FCing a contest is also a kind of art form. You need to know the resist profile of sansha, aggro mechanics. Observe and adapt to how the opposing FC is anchoring and his target selection. You also have to control your alpha boats like the mach and get them to go for armor shots at the right times.
Before you even go into a site that will be contested you need offgrid scouts relaying opposition fleet information. You need to know what site they’re in, what wave they’re on, Dscan their fleet comp. Also you need to be able to judge how good your own fleet is running. Whether it’s worth bouncing from the site you’re already in so you can get there before the other fleet and get a good head start so you can win.
That’s just the front of house stuff with the day to running. Then you’ve got all the back of house stuff, from running and setting up website and coms channels and there permissions. To things like WTM logi school classes were they take brand newbro that haven’t got a clue and run them through all the basics and get all there settings sorted out. They also teach them how to fast lock and fast unlock and how to handle reps so they don’t pull aggro onto themselves (very bad for logi and fleet if they die).
On top of that you’ve got to vet the people wishing to step up and join the command teams. Train them up encourage them to maintain a presence in the main chat channels to help the newbro. You also need to get the balance right with all the different personalities. Otherwise you end up with a load of arguing and things fall apart.
Incursions are just like eve itself you get out of them exactly what you put into them. They’re also a great opportunity to network and meet people and branch out. While having a nice fall back if things don’t work out. If anything CCP should be expanding Incursions and updating them.
I know they’ve tried to do that with Invasion. They lend themselves though to small tight knit groups due to the way payout is handled. Incursions are open to everyone though and give everyone that springboard to get into what ever else they want in eve.
Having done this, and been teaching a lot of logi that go out to null, and occasionally having new logi pilots sent to WTM specifically to learn from PVP corps, I really want to highlight this. PVPers who like having logi around, please consider that incursions are one of the places where your logibros can make their isk while doing what amounts to training to handle fights with 1-4 primaries at a time and triage reps, stagger them to avoid a target being alpha’d, anchoring right, etc.
We’re effectively running simulated PVP, from a logi perspective. And this is a good thing for anyone who likes logi that know what they are doing.