Get used to it.
You contested with them, or they contested with you? There’s a difference, by the way.
I just told you what I used to do. Rorqual mining and super ratting. Not anymore. Right now, I only do markets, and barely at that.
So yes, the next nerd should be incursions.
You mean, like, 40 people?
That’s dishonest. How many hours a day are you playing, and for how many days? Shouldn’t you be saying that before you say two months? Wpuldnt someone who plays 5 hours of incursions a day, 4 days a week, replace his ship in 3 weeks? Even if he was only making 80 mill an hour?
Everything about you is just pure dishonesty and a complete lack of understanding.
Sure. So how many ships were lost?
HAHAHAHAHA.
I do know, but I dont know.
That’s what you’re saying.
That sentence is an oxymoron, and you are just a… well, remove the oxy from that word.
Again, dishonesty. The entire community as a whole, compared to other communities that dont accept new players? What is WTM compared to that?
Okay, so how many hours a month do you play? Maybe you shouldve started with that instead of saying “wow it takes 2 months though!!! 2 whole months!!!”
Again, how many?
You keep saying the same thing. But you don’t provide any actual, substantial numbers or evidence.
If all you’re going to do is make bald ass assertions, then youre being dishonest, or an idiot.
So you’re saying that no one in the incursion community has ever played 5 hours in a single day?
Are you kidding me?
You just cant help but be dishonest, can you.
Yes, FCs know how hard incursions are. How hard is it? Not very hard.
Incursion is much more difficult and risky than Null-Sec Ratting, Null-Sec Mining, Wormhole Ratting and High-Sec Ganking … All of these are easier, safer and almost all of them pay better than Incursion !
Thanks for proving the point. If the closest you’ve come to loss in PvE is “I got into hull once” then PvE is too easy and needs a difficulty increase.
Nope.
The two are completely unrelated. “going in hull” and “being easy” are completely two different things.
I agree that if an activity is too easy then its screws the reward. But then you need to define what is “too easy”. I never lost a ship to incursions, and still consider it’s far from easy.
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If you say so. I didn’t.
So when WTM runs incursions, then incursions are… what, hard? easy?
Nope.
They are not completely unrelated, rather, they are not necessarily related. Those mean two different things.
If your definition of “Ease” has to do with whether you lose, or are at high risk of losing your ship, then the number of times you go into hull, and barely manage to escape, is related to “Being easy”.
Then by your definition, Market and Industry are OP as hell.
Solonius,
Throughout this discussion you have made straw man arguments and completely disregard the perspectives of others.
I don’t really care, about Incursions, as I have avoided them like the plague. But your arguments will not bring anyone to your side.
That’s literally what I mean : unrelated = no relation between the two. You can go hull in an easy activity, and you can never go hull in a difficult activity. ex of easy activity in which you can go hull : doing a superior ghost site in a T1 frigate. go in, scan the cans, hack the most expensive, loot it, warp out. You fail, or the rats warp in => you lose your 2M ship. Still easy, you can do it with alpha skills assumming you have a ship for scanning. That’s still way easier than blitzing missions (L3s or L4s)
Then that’s a bad definition. Ease is about the way to do the thing, not the result. You can do something easy and be at loss, eg if the cost of ammos/boosters is too high.
Also a bad definition. If you have 10% chance to lose your ship by mechanism, it does not make the activity less easy than if you have 0%
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Ah, yes. The Straw man accusation. Feel free to point them out. Otherwise, you might as well have accused me of being a pedophile.
If there exists an activity where every single player that ever tried, even with massively blingy ships, entered hull and lost their ship, then yes, that does have a connection with difficulty.
Ease includes the result. If every attempt results in failure, for every single player, then the difficulty is skewed.
And if you had a 90% chance to lose your ship? If your goal is to accomplish the activity and survive, then difficulty is tied to the survival of your ship.
No it does not. The career mission where you are supposed to lose your ship is not difficult, it’s designed for newbros.
The same.
Gambling is literally that kind of activity. Yet it’s not a difficult one.
You really need to formally define the notions you use before making general statements, because here you are using terms in a way they do not fit.
If your goal is to survive that mission, then yes, that is difficult.
Depending on the game, yes, it is very difficult. Thats like saying Winning poker is easy. No, it isnt.
Whether or not defintions apply depend on goals.
Most players would consider that the survival of your ship is a goal that they want to acheive. We can determine the level of difficulty based on that goal.
unrelated.
Then all activities are super hard and you are just making a soup of nonsense.
Your definition of ease just does not make any sense.
Does not invalidate my point.
Saying an activity is easy because people who dedicated a lot of resources (SP, ships, time to learn) specifically to not die don’t lose ships in it is just nonsense.
You can’t just ignore those costs.
Pretty sure contests go both ways. We won, but they still put up a fight (we were there and the FC chose not to bounce).
So does that mean you’re one of those 0.01 traders they nerfed, but you still do it because it’s still profitable?
A newbro replaces his cruiser in 3 weeks of grinding missions an hour a day. Replacing your ship within 3 weeks is fair.
I remember once there were 5, but here, 2 days into this focus: Leshak | Caldari Citizen 2114246714 | Killmail | zKillboard
Theres probably more out there in their travels, I saw this around the focus. The actual incursions didn’t kill anyone yet.
Also this https://zkillboard.com/group/1056/ : don’t look at the most valuable kills, which is buggy because it only counts player kills. Go down and read how much isk is lost. Theres 2 faction battleships that were lost on April 28th. Bhaalgorn | KLUS1VE | Killmail | zKillboard Vindicator | epthoria Otsolen | Killmail | zKillboard
You know they’re incursion ships because they died to sansha in highsec. Sansha don’t gatecamp in highsec so either they’re incursion runners or they decided to solo incursions.
Vindicator | Wima Retelea | Killmail | zKillboard More.
Ok. Glad that made you laugh. I sort of meant there’s quite a difference. Look above.
I don’t get what you’re saying. Every group has some elite fits, or else they can’t get the isk/h and it becomes really unprofitable. These elite fits are risked for you sandbaggers to get elite fits as well.
I guess about 25 hours a month?
Fine. I’m feeling like I want to disprove you: Bowhead | Jedediah Arndtz | Killmail | zKillboard Bowhead | firewar darg | Killmail | zKillboard Bowhead | Boggs Zuk0 | Killmail | zKillboard
How are they incursion ships? They’re ratting fit faction battleships with no active and little passive tank, but really high resists.
No, but I’m saying they never played 5 hours every single day.
Then you’re either a really good FC or a really bad one.
Ok… If I never lost a ship it’s easy??? I never lost my savefiles (Nor my character) in Darksouls, you call that easy?
You’re just playing with very complicated sentences.
If Anderson has that definition of ease, or does not, what happens? It’s like saying: “If you agree with me, this agreeing with me is agreeing.”
If there exists such activity that kills everybody who does it, it’s not a very good risk/reward ratio.
Ok. You just said my own point right there.
My goal is to earn a lot of isk and not lose it. Yes, and survive. If I’d lose my ship 90% of the time it’s not a very good activity, it’s hard, yes, but if you want every activity to be hard, then you’d ruin the game because people need activity they can actually earn isk out of.
Nonsense. If you are failing so rarely that the closest you’ve come to ship loss is going into hull one time then the sites are too easy. Anyone who does incursions for any meaningful amount of time should be losing ships and having too many near misses to count.
Now, ship loss is not the only measure of “too easy” in every single context, but incursions are straightforward combat PvE where it’s the most relevant evaluation of how frequently you are succeeding vs. failing.
I never lost a ship to incursions, and still consider it’s far from easy.
Then you are wrong. “Far from easy” and “never lost a ship doing it” do not go together.
I have not played the game myself, but from what I’ve heard if you have never died even once then you’re either lying or cheating. If you have in fact never died, not even as a clueless newbie, then its reputation for difficulty is highly exaggerated.
No, I sort of meant my character respawned, so my character didn’t die. If loss constitutes difficulty, I never lost a single thing in Darksouls, since they came back.