Re : edencom 2020 (HS only opinion)

Details

the even in HS (did not check out) consisted in a site (edencom production facility) that is shown as a combat anomly in the probe window.

The site warpin room (DR0) contains one stargate that limits the access to the next room to “combat and attack battlecruisers”. Once warped to, a beacon appears in space and is visible system wide, telling people which site are already started. This beacon remains for… dunno. I guess 5 minute after site despawns ?

The room 1 (DR1) contains several structures (worthless), a beacon. After the time for a MTU to be deployed, first wave lands.
Each wave consists in 0-2 cruisers, 1-4 destroyers, and 1-5 frigates (not sure of exact numbers), and “latecomers” 1-2 frigates/destroyers. I think I reached up to 8 rats at the same time.
latecomers spawns after a small delay ? and/or when initial wave is reduced to 2 ships ? dunno. When it’s triggered+ a small delay, the next wave spawns. I think it’s total 4 waves + vovoid wave, which contains 1 vovoid damavik, one vovoid radima, and one vovoid vedmak. The radima warps off when the vedmak is killed so point it.

stats
name id EM EHP TH EHP KI EHP EX EHP OMNI EHP orbit Range tracking evasion Tur Th DPS Tur Ex DPS Tur Max Th DPS Tur Max Ex DPS Miss Em DPS Miss Ki DPS Neut Strength Neut Optimal Neut Falloff warp scrambler
EHP EHP EHP EHP EHP m rad/s HP/s HP/s HP/s HP/s HP/s HP/s GJ/s m m m
Liminal Jarognik Damavik 54661 5530 4910 5676 5047 5202 4000 45 15 8 22 12 6 6 0 0 0 0
Anchoring Jarognik Damavik 54665 5530 4910 5676 5047 5202 4000 54 12 7 18 10 0 0 0 0 0 11400
Voivode Jarognik Damavik 54674 7481 6510 7619 6707 6957 4000 45 31 17 47 25 19 19 0 0 0 11400
Starving Jarognik Damavik 54677 5530 4910 5676 5047 5202 4000 48 12 7 18 10 0 0 10 6000 4000 0
Tangling Jarognik Damavik 54680 5530 4910 5676 5047 5202 4000 54 12 7 18 10 0 0 0 0 0 0
Liminal Jarognik Kikimora 54663 7330 6538 7590 6794 6936 6000 16 32 18 49 27 11 11 0 0 0 0
Anchoring Jarognik Kikimora 54666 7330 6538 7590 6794 6936 6000 16 26 14 39 22 0 0 0 0 0 11400
Blinding Jarognik Kikimora 54668 7330 6538 7590 6794 6936 6000 16 26 14 39 22 0 0 0 0 0 0
Ghosting Jarognik Kikimora 54669 7330 6538 7590 6794 6936 6000 16 26 14 39 22 0 0 0 0 0 0
Voivode Jarognik Kikimora 54673 8775 7645 8958 7901 8173 6000 16 40 22 61 34 22 22 0 0 0 11400
Starving Jarognik Kikimora 54678 7330 6538 7590 6794 6936 6000 16 26 14 39 22 0 0 15 6000 4000 0
Tangling Jarognik Kikimora 54689 7330 6538 7590 6794 6936 6000 16 26 14 39 22 0 0 0 0 0 0
Liminal Jarognik Vedmak 54662 27795 24466 28602 25522 26114 7000 13 27 24 40 35 21 21 0 0 0 0
Anchoring Jarognik Vedmak 54670 27795 24466 28602 25522 26114 7000 13 21 19 32 28 0 0 0 0 0 11400
Voivode Jarognik Vedmak 54672 30330 26047 30909 26937 27987 7000 13 40 36 60 53 42 42 22 10000 5000 15000
Renewing Jarognik Rodiva 54675 21590 18858 22098 19550 20156 10000 8 8 8 11 11 0 0 0 0 0 0
Voivode Jarognik Rodiva 54676 23629 20131 23954 20688 21664 10000 8 13 13 20 20 0 0 0 0 0 0
Starving Jarognik Vedmak 54679 27795 24466 28602 25522 26114 7000 13 21 19 32 28 0 0 22 10000 5000 0
Tangling Jarognik Vedmak 54681 27795 24466 28602 25522 26114 7000 13 21 19 32 28 0 0 0 0 0 0
Voivode Jarognik Drekavac 54664 41160 35955 42451 37710 38516 7000 7 51 40 76 61 47 47 28 10000 5000 15000

as you can see, rats are weak to thermal. Still the final wave is 57k EHP, and a wave of 1.5 cruiser, 2 kikis, 3 damaviks is also
4,9×3+6,5×2+24,4×1,5 = 64.3k EHP
Making a 4-waves site (+vovoid) total 314k EHP.

AFAIK almost each wave had web, scram, many had neuts, damper, weapon disruptors. The rats behavior was to attack drones, move and target as a pack, and warp on-grid to catch people further than 30km off.

Gameplay

Since you are webbed, scrammed, and the rats warp on grid to catch you close, You can’t kite. Since the rats contain small frigates that orbit you with 50 tracking, you need application. webs are best since rats orbit you 10km, grappler too… but you can’t fit them.

You don’t need huge tank, however you get hard neuted on last wave, and/or when there are 2 neuting cr +neuting frig/ds.

There is no incentive to play as a group. I tried with two alts, and I was going faster with the two alts in different sites.

The easiest I found was to use double web drekavac, with a point for the vovoid radima. drones were killed too fast so I had hobs in hangar but did not use them.

The reward was only the loot (no isk bounty). Part of this loot was red loot, so isk faucet.

Here is the loot for 30 sites that I did alone.
average red loot was 102 db so 97k*102 = 9M8 raw isk gain per site.

My fit

I tried drake, drake navy. I finally opted for drekavac. I had one route to follow, with several staging to drop the loot each time I am in a staging system.

fit
[Drekavac, event 2020 edencom]
Abyssal Entropic Radiation Sink
Corpum B-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Reactive Armor Hardener
Abyssal Entropic Radiation Sink
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Abyssal Entropic Radiation Sink
Abyssal Entropic Radiation Sink

Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Warp Disruptor II

Veles Heavy Entropic Disintegrator
Sisters Core Probe Launcher
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II



Hobgoblin I x9
Hornet EC-300 x15

Sisters Core Scanner Probe x16
Occult M x10707
Mystic M x1862

ERS were basically good DPS abyssal gravid T2.
Imgur

My opinion

I found it boring.

  • meager loot. I found TWO accelerators out of 30 sites, which means 7% loot of them. Actually I found more but had not decided to take notes or was not alone in site. Yet that’s the approximate rate of loot I had. Most of the time I had nothing.
  • huge EHP per site. This means you take ages to grind those EHP down. zzZZzz.
  • scrambled+webbed+warping rats. That means you can’t kite, you can’t try anything. You are stuck here. Less choices = less interesting gameplay.
  • consumable+limited loot. I mean glamourex. Either you think it’s bad, and just remove it. Or you think it’s not bad, and don’t make it expire. Anyhow expiring stuff is just bad in general, don’t do that.
  • difficult to find sites. Those are long to do, you have to wait a lot, and then you need to travel a lot in a BC. zzZZzz. At least several sites before were doable in frig/destroyer so you could pick some fast things. Here even with hyperspatial rigs, it took ages…

What could have been done to improve

  • Limit to 2 waves. Even one wave + vovoid would be already over 100k EHP.
  • no warping rats unless over 200km(instead of 30 like now). This would have made the MJD of BC useful somehow.
  • remove the drops that are limited in time.
  • add mining roids that are required for bps, so that anybody could find a correct activity. Small amount of roids.
  • reduce respawn delay.
  • add event-specific loot (can be module, implant, boosters specific to that event)
5 Likes

Yeah hard agree here. My favorie thing with the event combat sites were how they gave pretty decent loot for the amount of time needed to do them. They usually gave very good isk for what was needed to fly them and I think this is a good thing since and “event” should be special and not comparable with other isk making activities.

Definitely need to be shorter and give better drops like the old crimson harvest and guri hivaa event (my fav one). Another reason for them to be shorter is I find the competition to be really fun when competing for the boss drop. Now seems like people find it too boring to even participate in + the bad loot means no competition like the old events.

1 Like

I think a possible good loot would have been a series of drugs that take the same booster slots as pyrolancea, but deal more dmg in specific case, and less damage otherwise. eg rof bonus, the db9(dose IV) gives +9% DPS, so I guess a rof bonus of -8 % (so +8.7% DPS for non trig ships) would have been correct for the dose IV, while still help trigs to ramp faster.

Thanks for putting in the effort and presenting the information.
Detailed feedback like this is good.

2 Likes

Agree to the assessment mostly. May add the Research sites where exactly the same, just about 20% more to grind through and greater likelihood of good loot drops.

The sites where boring easy and took too long to complete. I was somewhat lucky with the loot, but according to other reporting, it was not really worth running them.

The ship limitations and heavy ewar limited fits to the point there was basically only one optimal setup, which could be applied to all armor tanking BC, with Drek being the best in all stats.

Recommendation:

  • ship restrictions are bad, because it creates the one optimal fit
  • OP NPC with maximum ewar pressure is bad, because it harms PvP and creates the one optimal fit
  • more, shorter sites paying less each are better
  • Up the rewards significantly, >100M/h for solo clear In highsec

The worst thing about … we were there before with the first 2 years of events, but CCP seems to go only backwards from there.

Also I think the biggest hint you get from this development towards better AI and more realistic NPC (as predicted many times). The better and more oppressive the rats the less interesting is the gameplay, because it dramatically reduces the solution space to only a few or even one option what and how to fly.

IMO the most important part here is the rats that warp to infinite just to catch you.
I mean, you have time to MJD if you wanted, but then what’s the point ? the rats will jump on you . Anyhow with 3000 m/s 30s later they would be on you but still.

So yeah it feels really like a “you grind this way only” event.

Again I really miss the polar dwarf event, or the harvest where you had roids to mine, or the drifter where you had to scan, to catch fast ships wthat had a scram.

I don’t mind the raw isk reward, IMO getting it to like 30M/h should be correct for noob-friendly event (remember that if it gives more it will be botted), but IMO the events should bring items that are worth more than raw isk, things that can be used to build, trade, fight, etc. I always consider the raw isk/h because that’s a lower value of what you can make.

(again, that’s just my opinion)

Yeah I really liked the drifters scan sites, polar was ok, but suffered from the stupid view restrictions. Bots are IMO no problem with these short term events, but I want people to fight for the sites. It was working the first two years with the old event team (rip), why not now?

CCP is throwing SP at us like never before, why not stopping that and making seasonal ingame events more valuable again?

I was mentioning bots because at the same time I was doing the events, I noticed a lot of “emergX conduit” being done, in some constels it was like one runner per system, and though I can’t say they were bots I can’t prevent myself from thinking of this possibility, and how fast people had been to create bots for them.

EC have literally replaced NS anoms for botting content. if you take the risk of losingyour ship into account, it’s even more worth now even with the 10 min delay or so.

If CCP makes fast sites that can net more isk/h than EC, then bots will be used for them, even if only for a week.

Are you serious?

I hardly work in Null not afk and if it goes well I get 3x15M + some loot from three ticks and salvage. Can be killed at any time, has to pay full attention and you demand all serious in HS 100m/h? Otherwise healthy in the head?

Last time I checked it was 80M/h with a rattle. Did it change that much ?

Anyhow, 100M/h is “usual” in HS once you have the fits, the skills and the experience.

In many previous events I was able to do more than 100M/h from loot+raw isk (which is not really important since the metric for value is varying, there can’t be comparison)

In normal, well populated null sec areas Rattlesnake is unfortunately not an option. Nor is it a carrier.

And the reward in Hs should be smaller. Risk vs. Reward and all.

BS.

There was a moment you could do 250M/h in NS from bounties only. Even more with smart titans.

Also you can do more in null. Just because you don’t, does not mean that you can’t.

You’re a smart boy. Of course, there are no limits to what you can do, but we’re talking about similar normal activities. And there are things you can do and things you shouldn’t do. So please, let’s spare ourselves this pointless discussion. You know very well that 100m/h in HS is simply too much. You can do abyss when it comes to ISK printing.

1 Like

You are not someone who can say what can, and what shouldn’t, be done.

No its not. As long as an important part comes from trade, it’s not, because trade balances it out.
Of course doing 100 RAW M isk/h should be difficult to achieve, and in fact I needed a lot of optimization in order to reach that value.

But please if you consider isk printing (so raw isk), tell it beforehand. Because yes, 60M/h in raw isk in NS is actually good (even though rattle can do 80M/h RAW isk too)

I‘m not talking about nullsec ISK printing, but getting back the profitability of sites we used to have with dropping boosters, accelerators and special modules. Those were plenty enough and valuable years ago and 100M/h was rather the minimum for limited time event sites.

100M/h is kind of the sweet spot also veteran highsec players considering it worth spending more time on it than just trying it out and then going back to whatever they do for making ISK which is more profitable.

Depends. You don’t know the real income until you actually do it and try, and since it does not last that long, sometimes you just have a few days to do it.

For this event, I barely had enough data to start figuring out the loot value of the sites and optimal fits, so I don’t even know what was my real isk/h ^^

Agree, with the scarcity on sites, you can’t properly estimate the income. But the new scarcity is a problem on itself. If you first have to search a while for sites, then take 15min to clear and get a bad drop … how is your motivation to go on from here?

The balance is not right atm, and we had the perfect balance in the past, CCP deliberately screw it.

It was good event I think. Very easy in properly fit ship and the loot was apropriate.

Summary: Loot bad, taking my toys home.

Thanks for posting this. I was wondering if it might be interesting to get into. For a high sp pilot it sounds like it’s pretty much just like lvl 4 missions. Warp in, press f1 a bunch, warp out… pretty anti-climatic.

Has anyone tried the trig-side of things? I assume it’s much the same except you’re fighting EDENCOM ships? Or is it somehow different?