Regarding Bounties and Killrights

This is a valid point that I am inclined to agree with. As there were clearly things that I simply did not take into consideration, due to either pure ignorance or a lack of due diligence, my conclusion was inherently flawed and blatantly incorrect.

Look, by all means, you can continue to double-down on the condescension and borderline ad hominem, or you can simply state that it wasn’t your intent to come across as rude and condescending and we’ll both walk away from this better for it.

Yeah we used to have that, then people just gamed the system and artificially raised the value of specific low value items to inflate the killmail value, this is why its only a percentage, much harder to game

There isn’t any way to make the bounty system unexploitable so it should probably just end up being removed, its never really meant anything

If I did this, it would mean that I actually did something rude, when I didn’t. Had I said something like “maybe you should go back to school and learn some basic math, idiot,” then you’d have a point. But I didn’t. I said that it’s important to think ideas like this through from a mathematical perspective before presenting them. That’s a fairly benign and objective statement. If someone said something like that to me in that same language after I made a mistake, you know what my reaction would be? “Whoops! :open_mouth:

If someone is bleeding from the head, and you recommend to the paramedic to apply a tourniquet, would you also get offended that the paramedic is “condescending” after they ask you if you even understand the implications of your suggestion?

I agree to just tear all this ■■■■ out. Whether it needs to be replaced with anything is a discussion we should probably have.

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From what I’ve learned in this thread, so far, I’m inclined to agree with you.

Are you seriously this oblivious to the undertones of your own words???

If you’re intent wasn’t to come across as rude or condescending then say it, rather than being hyper defensive and deflecting. As an adult, I would assume that you know that interpersonal communication is highly nuanced and that the subtle cues that are usually present in both face-to-face communication and strictly auditory communication are simply not present in text-based communications, meaning that misinterpretations are extremely common.

So, I will reiterate: if you didn’t mean to come across as rude and condescending, and you intent was to simply provide input and constructive criticism, simply say it.

That was all you.

I don’t need to be defensive, because I’m extremely confident in the things I say, not least of all because I evaluate them once or twice before I say them.

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Cool. More deflection. :roll_eyes:

There is no deflection. Everything has been explained to you very clearly and directly.

I see Destiny is making friends and influencing people again today.

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I thought it’s about time to get started on building support for my own CSM platform.

Oh! I thought of a better comeback:

Unfortunately I didn’t get to read most of the book because of the toilet paper shortage after COVID hit.

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This is, literally, the definition of deflection, bud. I never once said anything defensive, as I very readily acknowledge my flaws and shortcomings in regard to my post’s argument and conclusion.

Strange how other people have managed to do exactly that, not only without being condescending, but without being so utterly and completely tone-deaf to themselves and how their own words come across.

Be confident all that you like, bud. But I get the distinct impression that you are simply a rather insufferable person who does the majority of his communicating via text, thus having no exposure to the nuances of interpersonal communication.

I appreciate your input, and I truly wish you the best. I hope that, at some point, your ability to communicate evolves to a point where you can actually understand the subtleties of how you communicated and how your words can come across to another human being.

Best of luck to ya, bud.

Yes, please let me make anyone killable by simply placing a bounty on them rofl. This is a perfect example of why CCP needs to stop listening to these clueless carebears about PvP.

You typed paragraphs about trying to make shooting bad guys worth it and didn’t once consider what happens if I fly around putting 1 isk bounties on anyone and everyone I want to kill.

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Look man, if the tone of my post being (subjectively) off-putting for you is more important than its contents, you have your priorities mixed up. Absent of any actual personal attacks, nothing I said was worthy of the reaction you’ve provided thus far, so all you’re doing is being a drama queen. If your skin is that thin, perhaps it’s not such a great idea spending time on internet forums, especially those as polarized as this game’s?

Contract hits on structures. Maybe even assembled ships.

Let me wardec individuals and you can do whatever you want with the silly bounty system rofl.

We’re not going to need a bounty system once that pesky high-sec PvP is completely gone anyway.

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20 million isk is a decent payout.

Not sure what you are crying about.

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This is just a horrible way to start a post about CCP’s years of hard work on EVE’s mechanics.

From the very first line you set the tone and its not a good one unfortunately. I too want a better bounty/killright system, but the way to NOT get it is to always begin by being way too hard on the designers of this game who have to be extra special aware of how any crack in the system will be exploited by so many of the megalomaniacs who play this game.

Indeed.

CCP designers came up with a mechanic, which actually works as intended (possible performance issues aside). Bounties allow a way to incentivize killing people and this works - when hunting, I would prioritize targets based on the price on their head, and there are other bounty hunters out there who did similar such as @Aiko_Danuja and @Aaaarrgg. In fact, I bet Aaaarrgg might be among the top bounty hunters of all time!

I even, way back in the past, used the mechanic entirely as intended and hunted specific targets across New Eden. That playstyle was essentially deleted when the watch list was removed making it impossible to tell when a target was online, but that isn’t an issue with the bounty system itself, more hunting in general.

In any case, CCP’s system could use iteration and refinement maybe to make it more satisfying or immersive, but the core works as intended. Aside from confusing/scaring new players, I don’t see any issue with the mechanic at all.

The kill right system also does what CCP set out to do. It is possible to use in more creative ways that range from outright scams to “selling” killmails, but this is a sandbox game so that isn’t necessarily a problem. However for criminals, receiving a kill right does serve as a real risk/cost so it is serving its revenge/deterrence role in CrimeWatch, but it’s also probably true how those rights as assigned/shared/sold could be more efficient or intuitive.

The solution maybe lies along what Daichi says with some sort of “hit contract” that could replace/complement how kill rights are traded. Make a new contract that allow you to hire someone to remove a structure or inflict a certain amount of damage, and optionally allow that to include a kill right.

I’d take a shot at sketching something out, but CCP has shown zero interest in improving or iterating on the criminal systems in the game. They’ve nerfed and removed systems for a decade, not once adding something intended to create new criminal content or activity, only remove or restrict it, so I see no reason why they would invest here now. Hell, they just “temporarily” turned these key systems off to test performance, told us in a live stream there was no meaningful performance impact, and then can’t even find the time to turn them back on or even tell us they won’t bother!

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