Remember the "dedicated balance team" ccp promised last summer? CSM member reveals ccp ***canned it

[Anjyl_Took]

@Drago_Shouna @Nana_Skalski

@Corraidhin_Farsaidh

Think yourself lucky we were smart enough to step away from a RL politics discussion

Well, we were.

[Arrendis]

@Yiole_Gionglao

Edit: here’s the graphs provided by CCP in Fanfest 2015. Notice how “Professionals” are the only archetype largely engaging in NS travel whereas NS travel is residual for all other groups but “Aggressors”.

If that’s your takeaway from the graph, then you should probably reconsider some of your basic assumptions. For example: There are a number of characters (and that number is not smaller than 4 digits) just within Goonswarm that don’t engage in ‘Nullsec travel’ with any frequency. Those alts dock and undock, but they stay in one system, making money, day after day, month after month. Some of them are ratters. Some of them are miners. Some of them just sit in the same place building things that other alts ship to places.

That means you can’t just say ‘look, that stack there is all the NS players’. If you really think, even in 2015, there weren’t entrepeneurs and ‘traditional’ (and hey, can we get context on that label?) players out in null, you’re wrong.

Critically, that graph? Chart? completely misses Low-Sec travel as well. FW players, remember them? Completely unrepresented there until they move out of the space they inhabit. It’s a lot of really cute symbols with no real sense of absolute numbers or even hard percentages, and 5 bars of percentages with labels that… I dunno, could mean a lot of different things.

This is not the kind of infographic you want to try basing informed estimates on.

[Nana_Skalski]

@Arrendis

This is not the kind of infographic you want to try basing informed estimates on.

CCP made that, so you should blame them.

[Anjyl_Took]

@Nana_Skalski

CCP made that, so you should blame them.

So if BMW makes a car, but I use it to run over someone, should I blame them?

[Arrendis]

CCP makes infographic for a massive party with thousands of drunk nerds.

Someone else uses it for very specific analysis on player behavior almost three years later.

Blame… who?

[Yiole_Gionglao]

If you want the full details, probably the livestream still is somewhere. To me, the graphs provide a useful overview of what people does, and since it is a similar overview as the one I gathered from other sources, I think it’s essentially true.

Highsec is where most people play and what most people pay for, it is not getting the development it deserves (neither in quantity nor quality) and losing it is harmful for the game because CCP needs highsec money to keep nullsec alive. There is no EVE without nullsec and no nullsec without highsec.

[Nana_Skalski]

@Arrendis

Blame… who?

CCP, cause they cant do it right.

They do the data gathering also, so you can blame them for the ways they ask or gather those informations.

@Arrendis

Completely unrepresented there until they move out of the space they inhabit. It’s a lot of really cute symbols with no real sense of absolute numbers or even hard percentages, and 5 bars of percentages with labels that… I dunno, could mean a lot of different things.

You know yourself.

[Arrendis]

So you’re drawing conclusions on a single, purposefully vague infographic and a half-remembered presentation you haven’t bothered to track down to make sure you have the inferences correct on? And you’re claiming ‘other sources’ without citation.

Yeah, that seems reliable.

Nobody’s arguing that Highsec doesn’t need development, or that real, engaging PvE doesn’t need some focus and love from CCP. They definitely do. But using bad info to support a point only undermines the strength of the point.

[Nana_Skalski]

@Arrendis

But using bad info to support a point only undermines the strength of the point.

Info comes from CCP, maybe that is all what they have. Bad info.

[Yiole_Gionglao]

I wonder why you want to discuss my data and my point when you don’t have neither data nor a point…

[Jin_taan]

@Nana_Skalski

I would like something like this: risky “epic missions” taking people from high sec to low sec and even null sec, sites spawn far away from the agent and with greater rewards

It’s been a long time since I ran them but isn’t this basically the COSMOS missions?

[Buoytender_Bob]

Actually, the Caldari Epic arc does this to you…

[Nana_Skalski]

The agents for COSMOS missions are something completely disjoined from agents in stations. Also i thought these could be like escalations, like from missions that are currently given or in a form of randomly given out from a pool. Forming a two mission chain in first case and the rare randomly assigned in second case. Could be both.

[Nana_Skalski]

You can run the chain once in 3 months. Meh…

I thought about something more addictive. Random for the most part.

[Nana_Skalski]

[Tipa_Riot]

Epic missions … you do it once because of the novelty but then? Again, and again? If CCP goes this route, devs will do nothing else than feeding new missions and stories to the bored playerbase.

I’m still convinced the best way is to expand on the agency content, short, rather simple challenges, composed of fixed elements, like the event sites, with a reasonable chance of good loot.

Expand the elements, make the path to the loot a puzzle what NPCs to shoot in which order, add traps, add hacking for example, or make sites only spawning in one region (Black Rise, …).

[Arrendis]

Your use of data is my point. If you want to be convincing, you have to present arguments that aren’t easily dismissed by those you’re trying to convince.

@Nana_Skalski

Info comes from CCP, maybe that is all what they have. Bad info.

CCP has far more information than they’re giving us. Even if they give out incomplete information, that doesn’t mean they’re going to be convinced by weak conjectures based on that incomplete information.

Bottom line: If you want to be persuasive, don’t shoot yourself in the foot by half-assing it.

Edit: here, let’s pull in someone who sees the process in action:

@Jin_taan - when Aryth walks into a CSM meeting and gets what he wants, does he do it with conjecture based on incomplete information, or does he come armed with hard numbers from multiple sources that he can cite and which can be verified?

[Mothre]

What about something between normal missions and epic missions? You can run hem anytime you want and they give normal rewards, but the mission is a small chain put together from a kind of random pool or based on how you handle the mission. The missions and the order of the missions you get each time would tell a different story. This could make missions more dynamic and interesting without much change to things.

[Frostys_Virpio]

There are already mission arranged in chains. You could ask for more of those but it’s nothing new.

[Yiole_Gionglao]

I bet that made more sense in your head than now that it’s written.

Nothing that happens here and specifically nothing that I can do or want to do will change anything about CCP.

Nothing.

Our role here is to make noise so in the event someone CCP is interested to read our opinions, they come across my opinion. If I am lucky, his opinion will align with me and maybe something will happen. Or maybe not. Maybe I am terribly wrong and can’t figure why. But, does it matter? It’s just a videoagme I used to play and abotu which I acquired the custom of talking about it.

And that’s what I do. I talk. If CCP listens and agrees, good. If CCP listens and I am wrong, good. I don’t know nor have a way to know; out of sight, out of mind.

Personally I wish that CCP burns in hell for Incarna and hope to be around to tell them “told you so” when they go out of business and prove me right. My intuition says that it will happen in 2023.

And the more it goes, the less I will lose with that.