You’re correct. The situations you’re taking about render the "don’t be a loot pinata " defense irrelevant. However, situational awareness, staying aligned, support fleet/ safety in numbers, or fits designed for escape or surviving long enough for Concord to show up are still viable defense against the ganks that aren’t necessarily for profit.
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And, very importantly, if you remove all of the gankers that are seeking a profit then you have significantly reduced your exposure. Now instead of having to evade or discourage every ganker you only have to worry about the ones who are willing to throw away ISK to kill you. And that makes all of your other tools so much more effective.
Now, obviously your risk won’t go to zero (nor should it), but a nice side effect of keeping your loot value down is that if/when you do lose a ship it will be a minor annoyance and not a crippling blow.
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@Merin_Ryskin:
Would you say that trying to mine in losec is good practice for avoiding suicide ganks in hisec(while mining) ?
I once tried to mine there and had my empty Venture chase around all over the place before I got to do any mining. I also ask because it’s usually my habit while doing pve in hisec to use the same exact procedures I used to stay alive in wh space.
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And for good sake, don’t use a Hulk in high sec… Those are jackpots for gankers as they know they will get some tears.
Use a procurer, skiff or a covetor if you are rich enough that the price of a covetor is just pocket money. You can be ganked in a procurer but most of the time gankers won’t lose their time with them as they would find enough covetors / hulks. So be the smart guy and let the others being ganked. And if you want to be the smartest guy, mine close to a hulk / covetor as they would be the primary target anyway.
Yes the hulk has better yield but it is really too expensive for the extra it adds. And in high sec, your hulk will be ganked long before you reach the point that you covered the price difference with the extra yield. Hulks are more suited for mining ops in LS/NS with some pvp corps members to protect the mining fleet.
What a question! Yeah, you will avoid suicide ganks because no gank in low sec is intentionally suicidal. The only way to die attacking a mining vessel in low sec is player aggression, so unless they happen to have a scram fitted, decent tank, enough speed to maintain the scram and actual offensive weapons, OR a hidden bodyguard or two, its going to be hard to die attacking a miner in low sec. Concord won’t show up.
But mining in low sec is so often not worth the risk or the isk, particularly for a loner. From what I understand its safer in null sec, not that I would know for sure. (caveat: this assumes you at least know the basics of surviving in low and null sec! If you don’t, KA-POW!) A better way to avoid ganks in hi-sec is to simply move to a quieter corner of hi-sec with lower traffic. Moving out of hi-sec just to avoid suicide ganking does not seem like a worthwhile proposition.
Eh, well, knowing you are a preferred ganker target in a hulk, covetor or retriever is half the battle. You can do it and never get ganked so long as you know your business and do it to the letter. Point one would be the moment you see anything odd or suspect a ganker scout or gankers in system, you dock up. But as soon as you do that you probably just threw away what you hoped to gain over another mining craft. So you take on some risk and wait for more solid evidence, which, given experience and knowledge, including knowing who the gankers are, could work out fine.
You really think that CCP doesn’t remove suicide ganking because miner, the people who basically farm ISK just for the sake of farming ISK, of all people, will replace their ships with real money?
Let me clarify: I was asking if mining in losec was a good way to learn and practice the habits and tactics that help evade or survive a hisec gank. As in temporarily mine in losec to get used to always doing x. Y, and z, and then go back to mining in hisec once those things are habit. I didn’t mean mining in losec to avoid suicide ganking.
No. Highsec and lowsec are completely different when it comes to tactics and what you have to look out for. That is true for all different spaces btw. Different game rules need different tactics.
I’d think certain things(such as stay aligned, stay alive) would be useful in more than one, if not all areas of space. I’m not a miner, so I’m not sure how much of that translates to survivability while mining though.
I’ve mined & huffed in lowsec/jspace/null and your key defensive tool is dscan and of course local ('cept jspace of course). Out of habit I do exactly the same in hisec so yes it does transfer.
As to how many hisec miners use dscan, do their zkill homework and set their standings correctly for local, I don’t know. But from the whiny threads I’d say not enuff.
Only a few days ago dscan saved me in hisec, it was quite fun to dock and wait for the guy to change back alts then head out again, only for him to try and fail again 20 mins later.
Lowsec mining is not very good isk-wise and I’d only do it if raiding moongoo. Lowsec gas is very lucrative but pls keep it to yourself 
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OH! Thanks for being patient with my mistake. I thought you meant as a general practice. Derp.
Okay, in some ways its good practice and in some ways its not. On one hand there is no such thing as suicide ganking in low sec so its not direct practice. On the other its good practice for keeping your guard up. In high sec you check dscan and watch local and see no apparent threats usually so its easy to get lazy and sluggish about it. In low sec everything you see is a potential threat. You won’t just shrug off combat scanners on dscan in low sec. In low sec they REALLY mean you are a high probability target. And I suppose days of that experience can translate into better awareness and better reaction in high sec, just as a real world combat vet will generally react better to a sudden violent situation in peacetime.
You will also have to take belt rats more seriously in low sec. And that is also a good habit to have even in high sec. Reason: The rats might be a joke but some gankers appear just after the belt rats do and if you typically have a lax attitude toward belt rats you probably won’t notice the catalyst creeping up on you.
I also feel the added knowledge you will get in low sec helps you understand how EVE works. If you only operate in high sec you probably have no idea what a cynosaural field is, nor is the knowledge directly useful as there are none in high sec. Yet, somehow, I feel a more rounded sense of all that is EVE will help you. Just knowing how low sec is different sort of gives you a better handle on what high sec really is. Its better than operating in a vacuum (cough)(no pun intended).
But I think better than all that, if you really want to avoid ganks, follow gankers around for a while in a ship fit for the job of just observing and escaping and get to know their modes and habits.
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I keep thinking I have heard everything…
Removed an off topic post.
I’m a miner that does not want to remove gankers but there should be more risk, just like the miners and PVE/rating folks have to face. Maybe jail time tied to their IP or maybe, make its so they can’t use the stations or gates until their security status it back to 0. Any risk/punishment given to the thieves/ganker must be tied to their IP so that they can’t avoid the risk/punishment. All NPC corporations, that a player is in good standings with, should come to a player, with good standings, defense. The NPC corporations, that a player is in good standings with, should take stations rights away from the pirate, thieves, and gankers that caused harm to a NPC friend with good standing. Spys should get a tag on them that works with their IP so they are labeled for ever. After all, ripping off and destroying thousands of peoples hard work should come with some kind of risk.
It is the only activity in the game where the risk level is 100%.
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What is and how so?
Suicide ganking. There is a 100% chance that you will lose your ship and you will not get any insurance.
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There is %0 risk in the planned loss of a ship. When the gank fails its no different than guns missing. Your ammo is the ship and not all ammo hits the mark. If every other career is being forced to face more risk, so should the pirates and thieves. My ideas are based on more risk and if CCP is forcing more risk on everyone but the criminal careers of the game, I would like to hear from a DEV as to why.
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What you are arguing for is not higher risk - it is a higher cost.
Lol no. Nothing else in EVE is tied to IP instead of character, it isn’t going to happen here.
There is %0 risk in the planned loss of a ship.
Correct. And, as you say, it is absurd for this to be a thing that has no risk when everything else in EVE has risk. Rather than certain destruction suicide ganking needs to have a risk of destruction. Say, a 20% chance of CONCORD every time you commit an illegal act of aggression instead of 100%. This will make ganking a risk vs. reward thing where you have to decide if the value of the loot you’re getting is enough to justify risking your gank ships, and maybe push your luck and hope you don’t become the 20%.
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