Replace relist fee with sleeping order

Basically, the relist fee becomes a delay fee.

  1. remove relisting fee completely (or divide by ten? Nah, just remove it’s complex for nothing)
  2. add a sleeping state for orders. Sleeping orders are not considered when purchasing, and not listed for people besides their owner.
  3. any new order or modified order is set to sleep for 24H. Basically when you set up a new order, or modify one, it is actually removed from the market for other players, and will be added back in 24H.
  4. advanced broker expertise reduce the sleeping duration by 10% per level (down to 12H)
  5. implementation : orders have “wake” value that tells when they are/were awoken. Actually they are in a separate table to avoid unnecessary tests. Players receive both the sleeping table and the wake table when they look at the market. A cron job moves the orders that should be awake from the table. The id of the order is kept between moving them (so actually given in the table sleeping_order by looking at the table orders)
  6. Later on : separate sleeping time for SELL (24H) and BUY(10H) orders. this is to mimic real life issue of actually managing existing goods, while BUY orders only need to manage a space to hold your goods.
  7. Later on : maybe reduce from the minimum 12/5H to something like minimum 6/3hours (so base 12H for SO and 6H for BO). The values I gave are not important, the idea is, so those values should be considered as parameters in the game.

advantages :

  • simpler than the present broker relist fee, no complex formula
  • prevent people from reacting to the market too fast.
  • people won’t be punished from placing “too big” orders that won’t sell in 90 days because smaller orders will cut them.
  • so more items on the market, so more circulation of the resources

disadvantages :

  • prevent people from reacting to the market too fast.

You are too sophisticated for Eve, I fear.

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how comes “new and modified orders are put to sleep for 24 (down to 12 with skills) hours” is more sophisticated than the formula provided in


  • BR is the character’s effective Broker Fee rate at the station/structure (factoring in skills/standing/settings as appropriate)
  • RD is the character’s Relist Discount rate (factoring in Advanced Broker Relations skill)

Fee to create a new order at price P (this is unchanged):
Fee = BR * price

Fee to modify an existing order, changing price from P1 to P2:
Fee = max(0, BR (P2 - P1)) + (1 - RD) BR * P2

(with BR and RD having their own formula)

Because all CCP seems capable of understanding is “hurr durr need more isk sinks.” If they get rid of their stupid market fees and taxes, it would help the game, sure, but it would reduce the amount of isk they are removing from the game.

Nah, if they really wanted to make an isk sink, they would add a flat base 1% to all industry costs. Also the same for compression and reprocessing. And repairing in structures.

I see a major flaw.

While you may not notice such things in a well stocked major market hub, a 24 hour sleep for new orders is going to make other markets terribly slow:

“Hey guys, I noticed our market ran out of compact medium shield extenders, can someone restock?”
“Sure thing, I’ve put up 50 more for sale!”

“I guess I’ll stop playing now for 24 hours until the sell orders wake up, so I can finally fit my ship to join the fleet which is leaving in 5 minutes!”

It’s a bad idea, not sure if it’s salvageable.

I was thinking at first of sqrt(amount of orders placed in the last month) /sqrt(total), basically like cost index,but then maybe it’s gamable.

But yes it would make market a lot slower. That’s why I though of lowering it after that (6 H SO and 3H BO) . Also the 24H is without skills - with max skills it’s 12H.

12 hours is still 12 hours too long.

Even if the delay is ‘only’ an hour it’s a major flaw.

If a fleet is about to leave in 5 minutes and someone restocks the missing doctrine modules, those missing modules should appear in the market. No delay.

This could be bypassed by trading everyone who needs them the missing modules, ammo and ships, but if we need to manually trade tens or hundreds of people because the market doesn’t work, then maybe the market system is terrible.

This is actually usually done with contracts.
If the fleet is about to leave in 5 minutes and nobody can restock, you do …?

Do what?

Buy an entire new ship on contract just because the medium shield extenders ran out? Nope. But sure, I can live with a 5 minute delay. At most.

But as your idea is completely built on a delay of at least hours, I think you’ll have to come up with another way to do this.

What if the delay only applies to relisting, so no delay for new orders? That way there still is a deterrent to one-isking, while avoiding the major flaw I mentioned above.

It still encourages to put a lot of small orders, by the ability to react to the market.
The issue is the ability to react perfectly and instantly to a modification of the market, which encourages to … well, react perfectly and instantly to that modification. The idea is to add a delay so the reaction can not be instant. I thought of making the reaction “imperfect” but it can still be gamed - in the end it’s more complex and not worth unless you also prevent instant reaction.

No. You make contracts for your corporation containing 2 extenders. You can make several of them at the same time.

But what good is it if someone, when they want to restock missing modules on the market, has to create contracts instead to avoid your broken market suggestion?

I think it’s better to not break the market in the first place.

You have good intentions, but it’s a bad idea, sorry.

If you assume it’s broken to start, then you don’t prove it’s broken in the end.
“your suggestion is broken so people will have issues”.

You just assumed it was broken, and then ? nothing.

If you notice a real issue, please explain it without starting by assuming there is an issue.

It’s already the case that people create contracts when they have lots of fits to seed. Now they will also seed items that they need to sell fast on contracts, and will take measures to have the market seeded continuously.

I already told you how and why it’s broken.

If the market doesn’t allow people to immediately put items up for sale on the market when other people need those items right now, the market is broken.

That delay is introduced by your suggestion. And it breaks the market.

Delay bad. Idea bad. Simple?

because ?

Again, you assume that a delay is broken, so you don’t show it’s broken.

AFAIK it’s not broken, you can still place orders. It’s like saying “any change breaks the game, so any change breaks the game”.

Simple but wrong ?
If you believe that the delay is bad, please explain why instead of assuming it is ?

I have already explained it and given an example. I’m done here.

No, you assumed it.
How would it become “broken” that you can’t seed items instantly ? It’s actually the goal: that people who place an order in advance are advantaged against people who don’t and try to react super fast to the market.

You are looking at the market only from the perspective of someone who wants the market not to be abused by people who react fast.

I’m looking at the market as a customer.

If the market doesn’t allow people in my corp to seed stuff I need right now, that market is useless. If people need to manually create contracts for every unseeded item to circumvent market delay, your market design is bad. Stop trying to break the market please.

And I don’t care if you call it ‘assumption’, if your idea breaks the main purpose of the market your idea is bad.

You are not looking at the market as a customer.

As a customer, you want the market to be seeded BEFORE you need the items.
As of now, it’s a bad idea as a producer to do it because the items that are not sold will be cut and the order will expire, requiring potential relist fee without a perspective of profit, on top of the existing broker fee.

With this modification, it will become more valuable to seed in advance, and the relist fee removal will make it valuable to set one order for a huge amount of items, even if it does not sell in 3 months.

This modification would actually make the market more seeded, because seeding items in advance would not be a huge lost in most of the cases. And that’s what you want as a customer.

So yes, you assume it would break the market, to deduce it would break the market.

Now I don’t believe there is no issue with that idea. Just, you are not showing one ; you just affirm it will break without any explanation other than “it will break”.

I showed a common use case of the market for me that your suggestion will break.

I see no reason to introduce a delay when, if you don’t add this delay, the market would function perfectly fine as it does now.

There is no issue, yet your suggestion introduces an issue. Why would you do that?