then i still nominate that t1 mods should still be used as part of the production input. maybe even make t1 drops a possibility, we did say we’d assemble meta mods from wreck loot right?
Making t1 drops defeats the point again. But yes t1 modules have been talked about as part of the manufacturing needs when this has come up before
T1 loot was specifically removed from the drop pools if I recall correctly since it did nothing but put modules into the economy that no one had to build and put minerals into the economy no one mined thus competing with both mining and manufacturing. CCP also reduced the drop rates of the remaining meta modules which in the long run has actually increased the value of module drops since there’s some actual scarcity to some of the more in-demand modules.
Looking at the cost of T1 modules vs Meta ones whether or not CCP includes T1 modules in the build requirements is going to heavily depend on where they want the cost of these modules to fall. Right now Meta modules are generally cheaper than T1 for a lot of items which makes the T1 not really worth buying or using except in T2 production since they’re generally strictly worse. CCP may opt to change that by requiring T1 modules as well as additional components or they may rebalance the modules around tradeoffs and allow them to remain cheaper than T1.
After all work done but stopped at half way, why do we need such a big pool of low meta mods. They’ve been very good at mods like cap recharges, batteries, dcu, bcs, etc. So really if you want an upgraded meta not tech level lets make it available through reverse engineering but not invention.
Ok so i have been reading through this again and even asked my Psychiatrist if I’m understanding everyone’s point of view. I love everyone’s help to improve on the idea where CCP say yes that’s exactly what we are looking for.
This is how my mind looks at the whole thing now.
T1 BPO + X Material = T1 Module.
T1 BPC + X Material + X Meta Loot + Invention.
Invention on Meta BPC can be skill less for Meta only if you want,
Invention on Meta BPC can be costless or minuscule if you want.
Invention on Meta BPC can be shorter time or timeless if you want.
*Note the poor New bros don’t have to buy 2-7 BPO’s when they:
- Buy invented BPC
- Produce from Minerals & Meta Loot
vs.
- Buy T1 BPO.
- Buy Meta BPO
- Manufacture T1
- Manufacture Meta with T1 module.
or - Buy T1 Module
- Buy Meta BPC
- Manufacture Meta with T1 module.
I see, Large BPO collection getting 5x larger, lagging out as f**.
*Its a good isk sink.
*CCP is doing extra steps of doing the same thing, Build to Build to build. when 1 build & 1 invention is much more fun mind/game play.
Keep in mind code is not set in stone, rather a parameter is chang able/adaptable to the surroundings.
If you ask me to write a line of data code for you, i will get it to work for you.
Its not a rock set in stone, if you find an issue i will solve it for you.
I’d likt to see meta’s drop either as BPC’s, as damaged items that are tradeable for bpc’s (like nexus chips), and/or purchasable with LP. Bpc’s would use a t1 item and some salvage (no new components required).
Think of it as rigging a t1 item to make it more efficient as we do with ships.
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I’ve read this three times and I can only concluded that either you missed a few words in your sentences there or you don’t understand what is being discussed, what the loose proposal CCP has informally stated is, or how Meta modules work… not really sure.
This is more or less what is being proposed in this thread.
What CCP has put forward is roughly:
T1 Meta BPO + Meta Rat Loot Materials + T1 Module = Meta Module.
The idea being that the pool of over 1000 Meta 1-4 modules gets replaced with a few dozen types of material (give or take) that drop from rats instead and are then used to produce the various Meta 1-4 modules which evens out the prices a bit, makes rats more consistently valuable instead of right now where 1 modules will out-value 50 other modules put together.
This actually isn’t an issue because:
A. The BPOs would be pretty cheap.
B. The new-bros can simply sell their components and buy modules or other things. (like everyone already does with Salvage)
This kind defeats the point of the swap in the first place, because it keeps the undesirably swingy nature of loot value from rats while adding the additional steps of manufacturing and adds more demand for Salvage.
Overall this is pretty much the worst of all possible worlds and fixes nothing.
Subcap meta modules will almost certainly work the same way as capital meta modules (already player built)
Build requirements will include a T1 module and some named components (already on the market). It is likely these named components will replace the modules themselves in the loot tables.
Module tiercide needs to be complete before this can happen.
For capital meta modules, BPOs are seeded on the NPC market.
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Of course, because it is, its a standard to use the baseline to compare against. -.-
Your (A.) Have no reason to it as price right now is pure speculation & i say this again price can be set after.
You don’t set a price on vegetable until its grown fully, it can be compared with the Vegetable market later.
Your (B.) Its like your talking about market trading 100% when were talking about production line & its execution with BPCs rather then BPOs.
Im trying to explain to cater to everyone’s understanding.
Send me an in-game voice com & we’ll get to understand each other.
This is what im saying.
- NO! Meta-BPOs at all, Only T1 for BPOs.
- NO! boring Repetition, NO! to Produce T1 to Produce Meta, YES to Alpha Invention.
- YES! for Meta component loot, YES! to Meta PVE component drop.
Veto!
This is one of the dumbest things I ever had to read. Now CCP is forcing everyone into production and artificial price increases for meta modules??
Oh hell no!
The one good thing about meta modules is that I can keep them, sell them or refine them. I keep most useful stuff so I don’t have to “pay” 1 million isk for a meta mwd.
Your first sentence there barely makes sense and some clarification would help matters. That said I’ll take a stab at responding here, if I seem to have gotten anything badly wrong I’ve probably misunderstood something here due to the grammar being used…
So, yes price is speculative but CCP have said what they want this to look like and it’s pretty easy for CCP to set drop rates, BPO prices, ect to get the end price they want relative to other items barring some sort of huge spike in demand in response to changes.
As for (B.) I’m not sure what you’re talking about here. The manufacturing and sale of an item are pretty fundamentally connected and when you get components your two options for them are sell them or use them, as with pretty much any drop. The production of Meta mods doesn’t need to be aimed towards newbies because newbies can just sell the loot which will be pretty close to the final price of the item anyway.
Objection to (1.) makes very little sense to me. BPCs add another cost into the system, take value out of missions and move it elsewhere, and create barriers to production of these meta modules.
Without (2.) there’s basically no point in producing any T1 modules after this change except as an ingredient in T1 production, since without the T1 mod it would be fairly easy for the Meta modules to sink below the T1 in value, again, despite being better statistically.
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my understanding was that they were going to be BPCs to make sure you still got everything from rats
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I don’t believe that’s the idea, because BPC drops would create the same supply problems we have now just with BPCs as the bottleneck instead of module drops. Part of the point of Meta component drops is to have overlap in what components go into what modules so if Meta 4 ABs are in demand the drops go into those and the price of the drops goes up a little instead of the price of the module spiking.
Make sense?
every time they have talked about them i have never heard them talk about a supply issue, its always been a logistics issue and a player made issue but if thats the case i suppose.
i don’t care how they do it i just want them added.
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