Resource Redistribution Update

This is the exact opposite. Ore and minerals will become more scarce.

But are stampedes irrational? To a herd of wild animals? I am not sure it is. And humans are often individually rational and while that may not aggregate up to rational group behavior I am not sure it has to be the case that the group is irrational, just that at the aggregate level irrational/rational may not really be applicable. It is why I think macro-economics in many of its current iterations are completely off base. My long winded way of saying, I am quite skeptical of rational expectations and the efficient market hypothesis as universally true concepts.

Even if there is a perfect 1 - to - 1 relationships between the price increases of minerals and income and overall prices in the wider economy, such a change leaves you no worse off. If your income goes up 100% and all prices go up 100% then your budget constraint is exactly the same.

2pX = 2 * income,

is exactly the same as the income before price and income changes,

p*X = income.

Oh manā€¦

Your first sentence is correct, but the income for miners is dependent on the price of minerals. So yes, if people buy less stuff and hence there is less need for minerals then the effect on mineral prices of these changes are muted. But the point that miners are the least impacted is probably still true.

You donā€™t need a mineral board to hold things steadyā€¦

Let p be the price vector of all goods in the game. Let q be the price vector of minerals.

The miners income is based on q*M where M is the amount of minerals they mine. So the minerā€™s budget is given by,

qM => pN where N is a vector of all the goods in the game (note some of the elements of that vector can be zero).

If q and p go up by the same amount, then there is no change to the budget. To make miners worse off the change in q would likely have to be less than p. Or M would have to go down. This can certainly happen and probably will, but as noted the relative effect will probably be less for miners than for say ratters or mission runners. Not that is much comfort, IMO. Especially if the goals here are as Arrendis notes not really to rebalance the distribution of ore in the game, but a larger one. This will most likely not have the desired effect in this case.

In general, this is probably going to end up being the case. While I expect everything to get more expensive, I donā€™t expect the price changes to be uniform and thus it is possible miners come out looking a bit better than many others, relatively speaking. And you may be like meā€¦I donā€™t care if my neighbor makes more or less than I doā€¦I care about how much I make. So in that regard, this is not a good change.

Yeah, that is not how people do things though. If people are already at the point where MC = MB, decreasing the MB by a little bit will not elicit more missions or one more anom. That is literally saying a business that has just seen its price go down (the marginal benefit in a competitive market) will produce more. No. Dead wrong. In fact, they do one less mission or one less anom, and for some they might just stop all together and head for the exit. And yeahā€¦ā€œcan I has yore stuffsā€ was amusing 7 years ago, but franklyā€¦Iā€™d like for there to be more playersā€¦more people to shoot, get shot by, sell my stuff to, sell me stuffā€¦etc.

Iā€™d go even further, HS and NS need each other.

Maybeā€¦let me see the prices in Jita for morphiteā€¦yeah, not yet. The average price is a wee bit higher than yesterday which was up almost 10,000 over the prior days price (average price was 12,230 9/25) and more than double the 9/24 price. But quantity is very low. Only 2,667,470 for 9/26. The buy order prices are nearly double the 9/24 price. But 552,000 units is on sale in the Tranquility Trading Tower at 25,000 ISKā€¦soā€¦

This. In fact, I have argued that for some players the low effort/semi-AFK nature of mining was actually a feature not a bug for some players. We all like different things. I like cooking, others find it tedious and awful. Neither are wrong.

Can confirm from discussions I have seen with NS players who are serious about mining.

yes everthing becoming more expensive players earn less and doing more boring jobs for when they lost shipsā€¦ this is for helping game or? simply for selling more plex? sry we are more intelligent than cheap ccp advocatesā€¦

I agreeā€¦ The moment they decided to sell in game currency for money the game was ruined. How can ISK have any value or ship loss mean anything when just a few bucks USD can buy you a whole new fleet.

@CCP_Dopamine Thank you very much for wrecking this game for me more than it already wasā€¦ Why the hell should I keep paying for a subscription nowā€¦ you continually screwing me over and making it harder and harder for me enjoy this game and earn isk participating in actually playing and taking part. I get that bots are problem for you. But these updates make things 1000 times HARDERā€¦ so again WHY THE HELL SHOULD I SUPPORT THIS GAME? you are not doing a very good job of keeping people playing this game. I used to enjoy doing mining and processing and making ammo and goods for my corp and market ext and was growing quite well even getting up to making my own capital partsā€¦ But nowā€¦ How the hell am I to do any of that nowā€¦ even while in null secā€¦ now i can surely call it null suck, high suck, low suckā€¦ so devsā€¦ againā€¦ why do you want my money?? because this is not how you get itā€¦

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Yes. Stampedes are irrational. They are a panic response, and panic is irrational.

Rationality remains applicable, especially in its absence.

Itā€™s actually a feature for the exact players who spend all their time bitching about ā€˜krabsā€™, ā€˜carebearsā€™, and ā€˜menial farmingā€™. It gives them low-attention targets to shoot. And letā€™s face it, the people doing the most whining about how EVE is about PvP? Theyā€™re looking for turkey shoots, not actual fights. The people looking for actual fights, against groups who can fight back and be challengingā€¦ are already getting them.

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dont forgot your few bucks maybe significant money at the other part of the worldā€¦

That is very true. I guess that means its exploitation if they donā€™t lower the value per ISP so that poorer countries get equivalent value to their dollar amount.

But they donā€™t do that.
They sell Plex for dollars.
Plex can be used for services or traded for isk, this combats gold sellers and many MMOā€™s use this now.
If people have less isk, they have less isk to buy your plex with. So you may not even be able to sell your plex.
Therefore, you can not trade dollars for isk. You have to hope someone is prepared to trade isk for plex in order to get a service.
I.E. Plex is probably going to drop further in value.

Real problem isnt ISK for Plex. Real problem is RMT and Botting. Where this generally occurs? At blue donut. Nullsec blocks renting systems to bootters/rmtsā€¦ And CCP instead of fighting with problem speculate item prices with isk sink like crayz relist fees reducing bounties reducing mineral amounts at astoridsā€¦ So CCP companse their lost from normal playersā€¦ This very very bad design choice. Because of increased prices let people have 3 option
-leave the game.
-spend more time at boring jobs when lost ship (or simply dont enter pvp)
-using real money.
so all is bad optionsā€¦ all is not sustainableā€¦

No they donā€™t.
Those changes such as relist fees were part of fixing the overall market, not just to fight bots.
Even with no bots the 0.01 isk game was a problem.

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Yeahā€¦not sure here. It is like banking panics. Individually it is rational to go grab your money. For the whole group to do it, it is ā€œirrationalā€ as it can take an illiquid bank and drive it into insolvency. I think that when looking at groups we have a tendency to anthropomorphize and think of the group like we do individuals. I think it is a problem with aggregationā€¦which is also a big problem in macro economics.

Hahahaha.

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this isnt logical explanationā€¦ sry your reply isnt corret. because if bots/rmt is real problem. Why you cant fight from roots? Why dont touch their rented zones. their blue donut null sec power blocks? and attack normal players?

Not at all. Even at an individual level, in a bank panic, itā€™s irrational to go grab your money. It feels rational, but rationality would insist that unless your bank is in danger of insolvency and the government backstops against bank collapse that have been in place for 85 years fail, your money is fine, and youā€™re better off leaving it in an abstract, insured form, rather than have it in a form where someone can take it from you at gunpoint.

And that aggregation into a group that removes the ability for the group to collectively analyse and come to a coherent, rational collective decision is precisely why group behavior is irrational. To say thatā€™s anthropomorphizing the groupā€¦ Iā€™m sorry, I see that as completely backwards. Itā€™s acknowledgment that the group is not a human mind, and cannot act as a single human mind would.

A single person can be rational. A group cannot, precisely because itā€™s a group.

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simply you saying blue donut much safer than HS. And i agree about this. but i am asking why CCP instead of change nullsec systems, change HS to much more harder for HS players? sory very hard to explain. But if problem is blue donat why you want change HS? HS player block already weakest ones. Many disagree with power block ownersā€¦ They want be free. So why ccp too much effort to this useless game wreckings patches?

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apart from real world. there is no goverment at here for regulate marketā€¦ why all your entire reply fall short to explain current marketā€¦ atm market out of control. too many speculations thanks no regulations because ā€œsand boxā€ I dont understand why people say sand box to this game. atm game controlled by ony few playersā€¦ even ccp dont touch their precious blue donut we saw at blackout. because of this CCP attacking HS players for companse their income lost from RMT-Botters at Nullsecsā€¦ This system is just digusting at any lvlā€¦

this game is ending because EVE no more sandbox. No one can fight againts these old powerfull block now. They king. Even in this is sand box game. Entire sand box belongs them And CCP confirmed when blackout overā€¦ Now CCP destroying last resisted players for sending Nullsec power blocks to Low sec and High secā€¦

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Except my statement isnā€™t talking about the EVE market. There are no banking panics in the EVE market.

Group behavior is irrational, in the real world, and in EVE, unless there is a strict order enforced upon the group. Thatā€™s not game mechanics, itā€™s human nature.

In other news, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, real cheap, and a spiffy hat sure to keep the mind control rays out.
You are leaping wildly here, CCP have said what the reasoning & goal of these changes is, just because you believe it impacts on you does not make it a conspiracy.

eve have banksā€¦ named Marketā€¦ maybe you dont know but all banks are actually markets too whic people change their one asstes to another.

yes your brooklyn bride blongs to nullsec power blockā€¦ too late. sry you cant sell. this is reason why ccp cant touch these power block like stop blackout and now destroying 17 years old system for companse their real money lost from blue donut RMT-Booter profit.

Whow, so much of whining just because a few good changes are done by CCP, which will foster benefits of trading between HS, LS, and NULL.

I am looking forward to this change!
CCP, please continue keeping EVE a dynamic and exciting place.