I’m not quite sure what you mean here @Mindahouf_Davaham.
I presume they are talking about Japanese books being written from right to left, instead of left to right like in case of English. And even when translating. That order don’t change. And it backtracks all the way to this:
Thanks @Small-Kitty-Paws, that’s very helpful, and sorry for missing that small but fairly important (read: very important) point you made earlier @Han_Zealot.
In terms of an answer, I set the order of the complexity/cost chevrons for mostly aesthetic reasons (symmetry), combined with the idea that the outside edges of the chevrons represent ‘easy’ and the inner represents ‘hard’. Having said this, in hindsight, it’s a bit of a fail.
The general dynamic flow of the chart’s is supposed to be that careers and activities near the centre are easier, and as you move outwards towards the edges, they get harder. The rationale behind this is that it’s a subtle nod to New Eden’s physical geography, and there’s a logic to it, in so far as, because all the start points are clustered together, it’s easier for the viewer to navigate.
Coming back to the individual cards, the order on them therefore ought to really be centre outwards, not outer inwards. Doh!
Given where we are in terms of the project’s progress, and the work that’d be involved in changing everything at this stage, I’m going to leave it for the moment as is, but I will definitely pick this up in a future revision (I’m working on the basis that I’ll probably do a revised version of the chart in about a year or so, picking up at this point, changes in the game, new activities, correcting errors and incorporating user feedback).
I hope this is okay.
1 Like
I’ve recently updated my EVE guide and placed the “wtd” chart into a much more prominent position in it (and also mentioned that work is in progress on an updated version so it is worth checking out if that is already done).
Now reading your latest post in this thread it passed my mind that the old wtd image has the exact same link since it was posted or at least since the first time I saw it years ago.
For this reason I recommend hosting the new chart may it be a single image or an entire webpate (with the clickable links and stuff) on a permanent web address that is ensured will remain accessible for years or even a decade from now.
Having such a reliable permalink to such an important information chart is a great benefit I don’t think needs additional explanation.
2 Likes
when I was younger my old school had these pokemon books and they were printed right to left I’ve noticed that it seems like books were first made in Japan. are normally made right to left in the book.
1 Like
I think that makes a heck of a lot of sense to be honest. Up until now, the plan was to make the chart (plus some extracts) downloadable via a folder on dropbox but I think you’re right, a dedicated web page would be massively better.
Is there somewhere that I should consider for this? (I have no money!) A Google site or something similar maybe? I don’t know an awful lot about this so I’m happy to listen to advice here.
2 Likes
Well you can make a free blog site at wordpress.com just like I have my EVE blog and a new recent one too there it is free.
(Not to be confused with wordpress.org which is the CMS aka content management system itself of the same name that you can install on your own webhost while the .com is a blogging platform that uses the same CMS and is operated by the same people but is just that a platform where you have a site builder and pre-installed version of the wordpress CMS with some limitations depending on if you have a paid plan or free and which paid plan.)
The free plan has a banner on top and a footer line as well showcasing it is a wordpress.com blog and also occasionally ads might show up and of course the options / features are severely limited compared to the paid plans but should be perfectly suitable to host what you plan, it is (even on a free plan) perfectly capable of hosting an entire website or blog site (or both).
Haven’t used google docs for anything beyond hosting and sharing documents (text / word, spreadsheets, images and so on) but I think you can convert your progress into a word document with internal and/or external links so that should also be an option. You just make the document public and done anyone can access it with the URL.
Probably other options exist too. I personally think the safest might be the google docs route as I don’t expect google to go anywhere anytime soon nor change their free docs hosting service or at least as safe to rely on it as one can while wordpress.com might alter their free plan eventually.
Even recently they planned to introduce a monthly bandwidth limit or visitor limit which received so much negative feedback they went back on it however they also cut down the free plan’s storage limit.
So it seems they are messing with the various plans so they might have to sort their financial side of things to can support the free plans and might in the future try finding ways to do that which with the above solutions that they thought are acceptable is not a promising future to rely on them for something long term like this.
If one is actively paying attention this is not really an issue but as people actively link to the content it is necessary to maintain the same url and wordpress.com doesn’t come off as absolutely reliable, while on the other hand google docs seem to be up and running since a similar time frame and don’t see them having any financial issues nor cutting down features to the point your single document of this chart might be at risk… or at least much less likely than in case of the blog solution.
Btw I have documents shared with me and my own documents shared with others through google docs that are up there since a decade or longer so based on this personal experience I assume it can be assumed it is a reliable service.
(Same can be said about wordpress.com as if you check some of the blogs people have there are just as old as the documents I mention but the difference is that wordpress.com recently seems to have to change up their stuff to can continue operating so is a sign of trouble.)
So I think of the two google docs might be the better choice but as I wrote doing some research might bring up some even better or just as reliable alternatives too.
Microsoft also has a free document hosting service called OneDrive which also has a free plan so should be a suitable alternative as I don’t expect M$ to go out of business either nor having to charge for hosting a document, but of course you have to see the exact feature set of their free plan if it’s fitting as I don’t have much personal experience with that.
2 Likes
Thank you for a writing a really useful post, lots of really helpful information.
I’d come across wordpress.org but not wordpress.com. This looks like it’s worth thinking about, although there would be an annual fee attached (£36.00) so I might need to factor this into the chart download and ask people to pay something nominal, which ideally I don’t really want to do.
I think the suggestion of Google is probably better, IMHO, mostly because they’re massive (so unlikely to go bust, hopefully) and therefore a ‘safe’ place to put it. Like you said I’m expecting this to be a chart that’ll still be kicking around in a decade or so, so I’m very focussed on an arrangement that I can put in place for the foreseeable future.
I think having thought through the available options my plan is this.
-
Have a post on the forums with non-interactive chart on it for straight forward image based download. (I’ll create this when the project goes ‘live’) I’ll keep this post ‘live’ with occasional project updates and I’ll also use it as a way of collecting user feedback and suggestions.
-
Set up two mirrored download locations - most probably Google Docs and Dropbox, two places so there’s some built in redundancy - linked to in the forum post mentioned above and elsewhere, so that people can download the individual documents, or a ZIP file with the whole suite in it (an interactive chart, a print quality chart, chart extracts, release notes and a RTF hyperlink list).
I do actually have a Microserf™ OneDrive as well so I could put it there as well, but I think I’ll hold that back as a backup, just for a situation where either Google or Dropbox goes down.
How does that sound?
1 Like
Sounds good.
Regarding the forums just keep in mind even the forums changed over time I think this is the third iteration maybe? And not every link or attachment or whatever might work long term. Just something to contemplate.
Just for clarity’s / fact’s sake if you go to WordPress Cost | WordPress Price | Compare Our Plans you see the paid plans but if you scroll down to the Compare our plans button you will also see the free plan and its features along the paid plans. So there is a free plan that you can use without paying but as I wrote not entirely sure how long or how it might change sooner or later so not advised.
Btw just got an idea: Maybe you could consult with the people at EVE University Wiki as they might be interested in cooperating and giving you a section on the wiki or host your chart separately or whatever you can agree on. E-UNI and their wiki is up since a very long time so I think they can be considered as a reliable option as well, though it is best if you assess the potential risks and whatnot as I have no personal experience with them either beyond using their wiki on a regular basis when I need some info. But thought worth mentioning this option too as it could be promising.
Edit: An additional bonus benefit of the E-UNI route would be that even if for whatever reason you no longer can or want to update the chart the contributors of the uniwiki might still keep it up to date without having to migrate it to a new location as in case of a google doc link only the owner has access to altering the document and even if additional contributors can be added this requires active management and trust while in case of e-uni they seem to have the wiki going since a long time so probably no issue is to be expected even if the original contributor(s) no longer can work on the chart some new people can pick up from there on and also any changes made can be reversed in case of vandalism or whatever without much issue.
2 Likes
I think that’s a really good idea.
I don’t have any experience with them either for what it’s worth, beyond using their wiki all the time as my go to source of Eve info, at least in the first instance. They’re an Eve institution so I think they’re most probably a great group of people (real misanthropic idiots don’t last too long in this game …)
I’ll see if I can contact them while the initial feedback/modification/updating stage is going on.
Even if they didn’t actually host it, it might be good to get something on the wiki as a signpost to the chart so that it’s another way for people to find it.
Thanks again for the really useful input @Uriel_the_Flame you’re a star!
2 Likes
I want a totally new career path called ’ I haven’t the faintest idea what I am doing’. It is a special career path that you get directed along by CCP as they nerf this and nerf that career that you thought you were already on.
1 Like
Some of the most interesting people I’ve known in Eve took ages to work out what the heck they were doing @Altara_Zemara; some of the most interesting people I know in Eve now, are still trying to work out what the heck they’re doing, and I’d also fall into this group.
I’ve been playing almost 15 years and I still feel like a newbie all the time in a bunch of situations. You’ve only been playing for 10 months, be gentle on yourself!
Hopefully when the chart comes out it’ll help, either way. Hang in there.
1 Like
What about start a crowd fund page to pay the fee you talked about, I’d be happy to send you some, at the same time other may not be able to.
( not that I know how it works 
)
1 Like
I created a new profession called Alpha Orca, but they temporarily nerfed it this week with free Omega.
1 Like
please explain
Because of the free Omega, none of my characters are Alpha atm
I had a look at the Eve University wiki (following @Uriel_the_Flame’s suggestion).
Anyone can set up a page on the wiki, a bit like on Wikipedia (because it’s a wiki … doh! I’m writing this early morning, be kind to me …) and so I’m going to write one for the chart with a short history, some release note type stuff, and have something uploaded and a download link pointer for the high resolution and interactive charts, as well as the extracts.
The Eve University Wiki is about as solid an institution as you get in Eve, aside of CCP. My thinking is that putting the chart information on there gives it some kind of permanent ‘home’ and thus, whilst the download links might alter and change from time to time, the place to search for the chart won’t.
More to follow …
1 Like
I like your mouse signature and can relate to that wonderful creature.
1 Like
4 Likes