Hello EO,
Whatever caused the Mining Surveyor to show bad prices seems to be affecting other parts of the game as well. They attempted a fix today by estimating ore value based on reprocessing rather than market prices, but that feels more like a workaround than a solution. It would be better to address why ore prices are unreliable in the first place?
When the miner wants to sell the ore he is still going to be faced with wacky prices. For example the update to the mineral scanner now give players the impression Omber would be better to mine than Kernite. But as far as i know that is not the case!
They’re not.
The prices provided are the market average for the region you’re in when you look at it.
You do understand what an average is, right?
The main issue is that the est. price feature of items is becoming unreliable? And there are other areas of the game that rely on it. Not just the mining surveyer.
TL;DR
Basing ISK/m³ in the mining surveyor on reprocessed value can be frustrating when players want to sell raw ore. For example, it shows Kernite as less ISK/m³ than Omber, which isn’t accurate. The bigger issue first revealed by the ISK/m³ feature is that Est. Values for ores—and likely other items—are often incorrect, affecting other things. The main cause is fees for creating and updating market orders, which leads to distorted prices.
Workaround how?
This has been common practice to value ore for ages amongst players.
Look for example how this website values ores:
I’m glad CCP took their lessons and implemented a similar ore-value tool within the game.
Item prices in EVE are not defined by te game, but are based on how players value items on the market. Markets are local and items do not teleport, so prices are local too, per region.
For example velldspar in High sec space where it is mined is worth less than outside HS where it is transported for Tritnium.
Not every item has recent trade history in every region of the game, thus regional prices for rarely traded ores and other items will be missing in many areas of the game, making it an unreliable way to automatically value rocks in space.
There are far fewer minerals and every rock has to be refined into minerals before using it in industry, which gives minerals a much more stable value on all markets than ores. This makes ‘refined mineral value’ a standard way to value ore prices amongst players.
I’m glad CCP now implemented this too in their new mining sensor.
Ideally, the Mining Surveyor would use Est. Price so it could correctly show that Kernite is worth more than Omber. However, due to unnecessary complexity, it currently can’t use Est. Price for ISK/m³. This doesn’t have to remain the case—Est. Price needs to be more accurate, or other game systems will suffer.
Just off the top of my head, two things can be done:
This makes capital ships suddenly being traded in Jita and their Est.Price will be better. There may or may not need to be taken additional steps when all of a sudden there are capital ships in high sec.
Removing the fees for creating and updating market orders will reduce spreads and ensure for example Scordite II-Grade is worth more than Scordite, because if Scordite price rises then it doesent cost anything to adjust the Scordite II-Grade order. Its hard to express just how toxic charging fees for creating and updating orders is for the market.
I will walk myself out.
These are ridiculous suggestions with awful consequences if implemented.
Do you want me to explain again why, or can you figure out yourself what would happen if these things became reality?
If you’re complaining about the taxes, let me suggest a mental image: Old Man Yelling at Clouds
There is no reason to complain about the taxes, you just add them to the price, but when there is a fee to create and update orders you are creating market dysfunction.
One of the purposes of the fee is to prevent constant updating and effectively real-time manipulation of the markets. This actually creates some stability, as people are forced to decide a price and have to pay a fee to change it….thus making constant undercutting of competitors less profitable with each increment.
When creating or updating orders costs money, people do it less — which brings no benefit to the market.
Sorry, guy, but the days of .0000001 ISK market trading every 5 seconds have been over for years, and they aren’t coming back….
Charging fees for creating/updating market orders is pointless and even harmful. Example: the Mineral Surveyor scanner had to be patched to use reprocessed ore values instead of ore prices. Now it misleadingly shows Kernite as worth far less than it actually is.
In every thread 99% of Adada Tuesday’s posts are like this:
