Salvage Needs Love

Industry Gameplay Center Mining & Extraction
41

I am not a fan of scannable wrecks.

Player ships are scannable, but can avoid being scanned by keeping their signature size low and sensor strength high.

Scannable wrecks would provide an alternative way to combat probe players and will undermine an existing part of the game that currently is well balanced.

Also, there are plenty of ways to find wrecks already:

  • combat probe the person creating the wrecks
  • bookmark the sites people are making wrecks in
  • combat probe their MTU
  • cooperate with others who create wrecks to let them create bookmarks for you to find wrecks
  • create your own wrecks

With plenty of alternatives and the potential to destroy a currently functioning combat mechanic, I really donā€™t think scannable wrecks are a good idea.

Good point, I am not well known with HS rules like that. Might save me from getting CONCORDed one day.

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42

i donā€™t see anything wrong with using a tractor/salvage noctis over MTUā€™sā€¦ you canā€™t put more than 1 MTU on grid otherwise theyā€™d fight over a wreck, but a noctis can tractor 4 wrecks vs MTUā€™s one plus is faster overall than the MTU.

43

The issue is that most of the time itā€™s plainly better to drop a MTU, do another site, then come back in a salvager destroyer to salvage, then come back in a hauler to grab MTU + loot.
Making the noctis worse, while itā€™s supposed to be good at it, while also more expensive and requiring more skills.

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44

just make the noctis a salvager thenā€¦instead of 4 tractors, put 8 salvagers on it.
plus if you continue to use the noctis over the MTU, less bait

45

This.

The convenience of the MTU has pushed the Noctis mostly out of relevance.

Destroyers can do that already at a much lower cost.

46

destroyers are more agile, so travel and align faster, target faster.
However they have lower max targets and lower cargo space.
With enough SP in salvaging (and a rig) the destroyers also make close to same amount of time to salvage, making them effectively faster (considering the travel) than a noctis.

Basically the issue is that salvaging-wise noctis is outclassed by the destroyer, and tractor-wise by the MTU since you can drop several MTUs at a time (in different pockets).

47

noctis is still great though for picking up behind the mtu and doing the salvaging especially as mentioned before elsewhere, in pockets where thereā€™s 4 or 5 pockets and 5 mtuā€™s the noctis can hold all that and then some.

48

it canā€™t hold 5 MTUs and the loot from the pocket, or it needs carghohold and is slow, so using an indus to scoop both MTU and loot is a better choice.

49

i donā€™t have a problem doing thatā€¦

50

I disagree with everything you put, sorry.

My Noctis is split to 4 tractors, 4 salvagers and itā€™s so much faster than an MTU itā€™s a no contest.

I use both, an MTU when thereā€™s only a few wrecks. But if thereā€™s a lot I find it way faster to go get the Noctis. But a Noctis boost would be nice.

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51

I said many things in the post you responded to, surely you do not disagree with everything. ā€œEverythingā€ makes it really hard to continue this discussion, because I have no idea yet why you would disagree that destroyers are fine or that destroyers are fine as salvagers.

What is it that I said you disagree with?

  • ā€œdestroyers are fineā€
  • ā€œdestroyers as salvagers are fineā€
  • ā€œNoctis does not salvage better than destroyers when MTU has already gathered the gridā€
  • ā€œI want to nerf MTUsā€
  • ā€œI want the Noctis to be a good alternative to MTUsā€
  • ā€¦ and many many more things, it was a long post

Could you clarify what it is that you disagree with and why so I get to know your point of view?

You mentioned that the Noctis is fast compared to a MTU: I know that a Noctis is good to get many wrecks fast, but what makes it a good alternative to leaving a MTU in that site and the next, do something else like another site and come back to your MTUs in a destroyer later?

52

Well read the next part of his post and you can already find out what he disagrees with.

Also if he disagrees with your premise, he of course disagrees with your conclusion.

Basically he says that in his case itā€™s better to use a noctis than MTU+destroyer.

53

You are making assumptions.

I wanted not to make assumptions but to hear him say what he disagrees with, because different people may have different points of view.

54

Iā€™m not. He literally explains how he disagrees with you.

Your post would have been better if you had taken the time to read his. And only kept the last sentence. Instead of your blanket judgements.

55

I disagree that the Noctis isnā€™t a good alternative to an MTU.

In every way a Noctis is better, speed of tractoring and speed of salvaging. Letā€™s face it, who wants to go around with a hold full of MTUā€™s dropping them in rooms then going back in a ship with a hold big enough to hold them plus salvage?

Waiting for an MTU is worse than watching paint dry, I just used one in a security mission with one room, itā€™s painful.

Yes Iā€™ve tried a Catalyst but that doesnā€™t have the range for a solo salvager really, unless MTUā€™s have collected the wrecks ofc.

If anything the MTUā€™s need a speed buff to make them even more viable and attractive to use in the field. Or even let them drag in multiple wrecks because I agree that far too many wrecks litter the dscan.

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56

Thanks for the clarification!

One thing I wonder about is why you are waiting for a MTU? Isnā€™t it a ā€˜drop the MTU, come back later to see all wrecks neatly piled and lootedā€™ kind of automation tool?

I realise that in certain scenarios you cannot go back to the room, like in Abyssal rooms, but a Noctis is not an option there either.

57

I use a Paladin or Harbinger NI with Beams.

In most rooms I can just sit and hit stuff way before they get near so if itā€™s a single room Iā€™ll drop an MTU while I kill stuff (depending on the amount of wrecks), then launch salvage drones.

If thereā€™s more than one room Iā€™ll bookmark a wreck in each room then return with the Noctis.

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58

I farmed in NS with an ishtar, dropping a MTU at the end of a haven (and BM ing it) , doing 4 sites (so 4 MTUs) before coming back in a ship to salvage in place, then coming back with a fast hauler (eg wreathe) to scoop the 4 MTUs and their loot.

I canā€™t even imagine being worse now that marauders are plain better.

The important ratio was how much money I was making from salvaging+looting the 4 sites, compared to how much I was making from killing the rats (ticks) .
Basically the time to salvage + scoop the loot was the important part.
What made salvaging not worth it was the moment I used better fits for killing rats, and then whatever I did the isk/hour from salvaging was lower than the isk/hour from killing rats. Looting was still valuable(meaning, no salvage), until it become not valuable.

IIRC the best value I had from salvage+loot was 80M/h, and 120M/h from loot only (like 12M loot in 6 min)

So IMO, in the end, what made salvaging not worth was the the amount of time needed to perform it.
Decreasing the MTU speed would only make it even worse.

59

And make wrecks scannable. Perhaps with new probes that can only go on salvage ships.

60

PLEASE! Please! Please make this possible. The ultimate sucker trap! :rofl:

I love my Noctis, and you would not believe how versatile it is! :wink: I have it balanced for the current rules but change them if you wish. Iā€™ll just rebalance.

stefnia Freir seems to want his cake and eat it too. Mehā€¦

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