It’s probably that Directrix Daphiti shares Ms. Joringer’s faith, and from the sounds of things they might not be so far apart in how they interpret it. Shared context makes communication pretty easy.
As I see it, there are two kinds of faithful who refuse to give a direct answer to “Do you, or do you not, believe that I and mine should be subjugated to the Amarr Throne?”
- Those who believe this is the case, but do not want to directly say so, because the methods of subjugation they promote are not armed force of conquest but “winning hearts and minds”, and they know saying it directly would alienate us, and make their campaign for making us come willingly ever so much harder.
- Those who do not believe this is the case, but cannot or will not say so out of fear of retaliation against themselves or their family by others of their Faith, because they are very well aware saying it out loud would be heresy.
The second kind, when self-aware, rarely makes noise about their Faith, let alone sets up missionaries; they know very well to keep their heads down, and more often than not they are honorable enough to not try and convert anyone to a broken Faith before that Faith is fixed. When not self-aware, they tend to lie to themselves, and turn into the first kind, meaning well maybe, but in effect converting people with sweet words and kind deeds into a Faith that seeks to oppress them.
And to be honest, I prefer the Amarr who come honestly and openly with weapons and warships to the first kind of conquerors by sweet twisting of words. I can fight warships, but it is much harder to fight “peaceful” proselytizing.
It is especially hard when a very basic tenet of my beliefs and my culture is that thou shalt not proselytize, that spiritual beliefs are a private clan matter and to be respected at all times, even when I disagree with them, and only fought when they directly impeach on my freedom, and that to speak to outsiders about my religion, such as it is, without them inviting me to, is not just rude, but can be spiritually violent.
Yet there is nothing “peaceful” about proselytizing that wants to turn me into one of the Faith, to make me abandon my own gods. It is, as I said above, spiritually violent. Moreover, it as much as the warships seeks to end the tribes as independent entities and transform us into servants of the Golden Throne. The fact that the attempt is bloodless does not make the goal of it any less hostile.
Thus if I let Amarr missionaries speak freely, they use that freedom to try and end me. If I do not let them speak freely, I go against what is andesh, and again am ended.
We cannot win.
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Just a little whisper by the ear that can either be of some comfort, or a bug that will crawl and and itch until you are either eaten by it or lock it at the back of your head:
You cannot win within the parameters you limited yourself with.
There are ways out, but they kinda cost… everything. Not someting most people are willing to pay.
Little bug whisper out.
PS - I am curious about her answer too, i do not know if she quite figured it herself yet, even if the outcomes of it were made clear by your points 1 and 2.
Who is it that you think you speak for? Do you think it’s for your Tribe? For the Republic? Or are you simply looking to score cheap points?
You don’t speak for the Republic as a whole, and I would wager even less for the views of the Starkmanir in particular. Jeoran Setul, a prominent member of the Starkman Milisi once said of those of your tribe who maintain their faith in the face of hostility “we admire them for it and stand by their side, because they are our brothers. We are the Minmatar, we are the Tribe, and we are the Republic. Those who attack us are enemies of everything we are.”
The example set by people like Setul is the reason that residence upon Sanctuary is without precondition, when the strongest protector of the faithful in the Republic is a tribal militia, how can I have anything but respect and affection for the Tribes? They are not defined by the actions of a reactionary minority, any more than I am defined by the actions of zealous reclaimers.
In your haste to find shame in the beliefs of your kin, you overlook the tolerance, optimism and hope unique to the ‘child brother of the Tribes’. The Starkmanir are exceptional, that you seem unable to see it says nothing about them and everything about you.
I believe I did cover this. There are ways out of the situation, but those ways are not andesh.
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Elsebeth is much kinder to you and your kind than I would be.
Even though you won’t admit it, by the very definition of your religion, your scriptures and your god’s commands, you must choose the empire and its leaders above your kin. You simply must if you hold true to the commandment to “go forth and conquer” in his name.
I don’t know (or care) whether you are self-delusional and actually believe the nonsense you’re spouting or whether it’s just a facade to make your vile imperial masters and beliefs seem more palatable but, as was pointed out by another pilot, you really should think about moving to Ammatar space. While you are in the Republic I will always view you and your fellows with suspicion and as an existential threat to our freedom.
(N.B. that I said that I, Anabella Rella, will view you as a threat. I speak only for myself, not my clan, corporation, alliance, the Republic or other Matari in general.)
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Those those are not ‘ways out’, they are ‘ways to lose’.
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Book I tells us ‘The great Amarr Empire was founded to cultivate the spirit of man.’, the Book of Missions tells us of the Sefrim ‘From on high, they came with wisdom and mercy’, the Book of Trials tells us ‘All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all’.
This is all scripture that I not only know of, but that I know by heart; yet you, equipped with a single line from the Book of Reclaiming think to tell me what defines the Rite. I cannot say whether Elsebeth is kinder than you, but in asking questions rather then making pronouncements she certainly demonstrates insight and occasionally humility you sorely lack.
To insist that you do not care while you assertively give your opinion, would in most circumstances only detract from the substance of that opinion; in this case there is none, you present a false choice to spare yourself the inconvenience of justifying your stance that I, and my fellows, millions of other Republic citizens ought to exile ourselves to the Mandate in order for you to feel better.
Yeah I’m taking one sentence from the most important part of your religious scriptures and interpolating. Don’t care for my interpretation? Then answer Arrendis’ questions; when the rubber meets the road and your empress commands you to take up arms against your genetic kin will you listen? The answer is yes you will, whether you’ll admit it or not because your god demands it.
Sorry sweetheart but, being Minmatar (and supporting your kin, our customs and traditions, the Republic, etc.) versus adhering to the Amarrian rite (and all that comes with that) are mutually exclusive propositions.
Whether you stay or go is of little consequence to me. Just understand that if such a time comes that you are forced to choose between your god and your people that if you choose your god I will fight you and your kind just the same as if you were True Amarr. Because in the end the only difference between you and them is a bit of genetic material.
If this sounds harsh and extreme then, so be it. I’ve lived for years attempting to live in accordance with the ideals of tolerance, inclusion and acceptance of differing ideas and customs. But all that has gotten me nowhere (with regards to dealing with your imperial rite).
Extremism in defense of the continued existence of the Minmatar people is no vice.
Most important according to whom? Even were what you claim were true, and it is not; you lack the depth of understanding of scripture either to make or defend any interpretation regardless of its veracity.
Your ignorance goes deeper than scripture alone, you say that being Minmatar and being of the Rite are mutually exclusive while two of the seven Tribes are largely both. In your utter inability to be consistent with your own words you now tell me it is of little consequence to you whether I stay or go, after having told me I should go. You again resort to false choices to cover your lazy rhetoric, we live in a nation where a person is not only tolerated but lauded for loyalty to kin, clan and tribe as well as Republic– in my case just as in theirs, it is unlikely that they will ever have to forsake the other loyalties to pick only one.
You do not sound harsh or extreme, just like every other violent reactionary making the same tired defence of a hatred justified mostly by habit.
Please though, prove me wrong. Tell me the tolerant and inclusive things you’ve done that were of no avail in dealing with my Imperial Rite, give me one solitary justification for your insane defence of extremism against some Minmatar for the sake of the continued existence of the Minmatar people; because this extremism is not hypothetical, it is arson, rioting and murder– tell me Anabella Rella, what have the faithful done to make that ‘no vice’?
With respect;
Being “of the Rite” and being “of the Faith” are not necessarily the same thing. Plenty people who would call themselves the latter would object to you painting them the former.
If you do not wish false dichotomies to be made, do not make this binary yourself.
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I understand the distinction, were I referring to the Faith rather than the Rite; regarding the two Tribes we both know I was referring to, I likely would have gone so far as to say mostly rather than largely, the binary you object to is the one Anabella presented me with.
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