Selection Bias?

Communications Center General Discussion
21

In your very first post you implied that the pvp players are very loud on forum and have majority. It is the other way around. We are minority. Almost every day some player like you creates a new thread about and against ganking. Some days we see even two or more of these threads. The crying of antigankers is loud and nonstop. And that is just forums, I don’t follow reddit but I expect that crying to be mirrored there too.

And whos feedback is implemeted? Antigankers’. Last 3 years CCP is nerfing ganking really really hard. Either directly or indirectly (current expansion for example). No other content is getting so many nerfs. Soon the only thing that they will be able to nerf will be the red safety itself lol.

So no sir. We, high-sec gankers, are not getting anything. CCP is nerfing us hard, social medias are spammed with posts of how unbalanced, unfair and easy it is. How is it destroying the game and making players quit. And as far as I know, we never had any CSM representative euther (and that just means someone who would not be against this content).

So this crying that CCP listen to us and that we are spamming forums is really stupid.

22

Of course he thinks so. He has his propaganda. And SRP are doing some small scale ganking too, so it adds up.

I mean, I am roaming whole highsec looking for him, because he spoke harsh truth, myself. He will pay for that! :rofl:

And the best part of that is that he created a clean alt to post on forums so we couldn’t do that to him. But we hacked EVE forums to find out who he really is and insta wardecced him.

23

This forum is just smalltalk and exchange of opinions. I highly doubt the Devs read much here and even if they do, the probability of anything discussed here making it into the game is almost non existant, no matter from which side.

The only exception may be the “small things” suggestion topic.

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24

One of my ideas got implemented off the forums. But I might have suggested it on one of their surveys as well, don’t remember, it was a few years back. At least I like to think that, because I suggested it (the only one who had come up with that too), and a couple of years later it went into the game.

But in general, I agree though. Maybe not so much in particular due to the forums per se. But it is as with anything else – this game has a couple of tens of thousands of active players. All of them have some ideas what they would like to see in the game. That’s a few tens of thousands of ideas (with some repeats in the mix). Most don’t seek out any kind of official channel to pass their ideas on to Fenris. But some do. With forums, surveys, Discord, and other platforms that still leaves a minimum of few hundred to a couple of thousand discrete ideas that players throw at Fenris every year.. They’re not gonna go through all of them, and realistically – it’s not possible to implement them all either.

Not to mention this isn’t a community start-up enterprise where every user gets a say. This is an intellectual property with a concrete authorship (Fenris Creations). The authors always have the right to determine what they do with their work. I see some guys don’t understand this or they don’t like it. But that’s the way it is. Fenris knows the direction they’re taking this game without any input. But they need the input mostly to gauge player satisfaction, and to get an idea on what kind of things would bring in more players without completely changing the product (EVE), for example.

There is no conspiracy where certain players’ ideas get used by Fenris and not the others’. Fenris, the author/creator of EVE Online, makes this game the way they see fit. Some ideas they may pick up from the players, true, but not as a rule.

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25

When we put up the first structure months ago, they identified us as bozos who cannot defend it from them. During the month that we expanded our structures to 5 total, they actively monitored the system. Over the next couple months, their interest in us waned as the new status quo held steady.

Of course, I cannot say with any certainty their precise reason for the declaration of war within a week of my forum post. Both sides were maintaining the status quo up until the declaration of war. We are still bozos who cannot defend 5 long-standing structures in Anstard. Please suggest an alternative reason for the Something Really Pretentious alliance to declare war now on some bozos who cannot defend their structures.

26

Funny that you put people in the categories ‘destructive players’ and ‘constructive players’.

It is true that some people like building things in the game, and others enjoy the necessary destruction of things in the game. There even is a large group of players that does both.

However, please do not confuse these playstyles with constructive or destructive suggestions, or feedback.

EVE is a game where not only construction but destruction too is important for both gameplay and the economy.

Suggestions that reduce destruction in the game may therefore ironically be destructive for the game, as an EVE with less destruction runs into economic issues as well as a lack of content for players who enjoy the competitive interaction, whereas suggestions that increase destruction could very much be helpful or ‘constructive’ for the game.

In my opinion many of those complaints from people who got killed and wish the game to become safer are destructive to the game, if implemented.

EVE has been stable as a ruthless game with destructive PvP for decades and I think this stability is best kept if this PvP gameplay is not reduced or removed.

TL;DR: what you call ‘constructive’ may ironically be destructive to the game.

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27

Personally, I’d kind of want to see how many structures the bozos were going to erect before discouraging them from putting up more.

That aside, I think you’re trying to read a lot of meaning into something that most experienced players would have told you was inevitable. Small org with multiple structures they can’t defend reasonably close to a hub is going to catch a dec merely for existing sooner or later.

You could probably just ask them why they’re doing it but I’m pretty sure it’s because that’s just what they do.

28

Yes. I read many of those before starting this discussion. You cannot avoid those complaints on this forum. However, each of those complaints has some unknown pilot voicing a complaint. How is each complaint handled on this forum? Shout them down for not knowing how to play your game. Keep insulting them until they go silent. Then you celebrate another forum victory. After all, every suggestion to make PVP adjustments threaten your Eve game play. To you, that is all that matters. You thrive on rage-quits. Who does not thrive on rage-quits? Everyone else. Other alliances would like to have healthy recruiting and retention. The game developers just released a major update aimed to help new players acclimate to this game. How do you respond?

29

Yes, as I said in the beginning of this thread, players like @Syzygium and @Gerard_Amatin are the real griefers here. It is them who recommends these players better ships for the jobs, better fits for survival and general tips how to fly those ships to avoid further losses. T´hey keep insulting the players for not knowing the game and forces them to obey their rules. It is truly outrageous and I also never take advice from them. Glass cannon ftw!

Yes usually a day to week new alt with zero killboard history because they are afraid of showing their pathetic zkill. Because if they would show it, we would quickly raise a point that “you were ganked the very first time in X years you play this game, so how does your arguments of highsec being too dangerous makes sense?”. Or they are scared shitless that the evil gankers will go after them. I mean one guy is so paranoid that even though he posted antiganking thread on brand new clean alt that doesn’t link his main in any way, he still thinks that the wardec he got few days ago is because he posted antiganking thread on the forum.

You did exactly the same you hero! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I think the true reason for antigankers almost always using a clean alt is that they are ashamed of their stance and don’t want to be laughed at in their corporation / alliance or general EVE community.

I certainly am not spamming insults to players like you. I explain why they are wrong, if they reply I reply back, and typically the antiganker wins the exchange because his stubborness to accept reality and take any advices just forces me to give up. There is no point trying to explain how things works to someone with agenda unwilling to listen, is it? If they eventually go silent it might be because they realized they are wrong? Nah, thats nonsense… It will be most likely because those threads eventually derails into offtopic spam with Zaera images, Aiko’s and Frostpacker crap and nobody is actually trying to debate with op so op gives up seeing he is not getting the attention anymore.

Every suggestion brought so far was either already implemented. So there goes that eve devs don’t listen to forum @Syzygium , pretty much every direct ganking nerf since last 3 years was suggested on forums, including 100% safe space for news and pussies. Could be conicidence of course, I fully expect that antigankers are posting the same crap on reddit where CCP seems to be active a bit more.

Or that suggestion just kills high-sec ganking completely. Hence, since CCP still didn’t get persuaded to fully ruin their game, they couldn’t implement it.

I don’t care if my targets rage quits or not. I don’t chat with them after a gank, I don’t do it for their salt. Of course, they often open chat with me and I usually accept. Only to receive death wishes, kill threats, cancers wishes, swearing, mocking how bad/unstkilled/stupid I am and more. Typically they send me few lines or emails of insults and they block me so I can’t message them back. Heroes. :rofl:

And you know what? I don’t report them for toxicity. I ignore it, they are weak willed players who are probably playing wrong game, they can’t do any better, they can’t stay calm. They are antigankers. Man has to mature from that mindset, but not everyone can do it.

As I wrote several times on the forums. EVE is a niche game. If they rage quit and never go back because I killed their Leopard or Pacifier, well it is sad that we, EVE commmunity, are losing another player, but realistically, this players was never cut for this game and he would eventually ragequit over something else even if ganking was removed from the game. Citadel lost to citadel bashers, shuttle+expensive pod lost to lowsec/nullsec smartbombers, blueprints used in freeport citadel being destroyed when the citadel was brough offlline, suspect baited on a mission site, permabumped on asteroid belt and more.

This game is not for everyone. It will never have even 50k concurent players online, it is niche game for hardcore players and it used to be advertised as such. Is why I jumped on it intially. It is you who signed up for full loot, non-consensual pvp everywhere, including safe zones, game and is crying on forums for the game rules and mechanics be changed because you can’t handle it. Don’t you see how pathetic that is?

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31

I think you’re confusing them with somebody else. That or your English skills are not that good. Syzygium can be blunt in his posts sometimes (not an issue really) and he has a no-nonsense attitude, but that doesn’t make him a griefer. And Gerard is usually very polite to most people on the forums and when he responds to controversial posts it is with intent to understand and not ridicule. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him ridicule somebody on these forums (granted I haven’t read all of his posts, but a statistically sufficient sample).

I’m more of a griefer than those two guys combined here, so I am offended I wasn’t included in the list.

All that being said, there are people here who act in a bullying manner. I’m not gonna name any names. I’m sure most forum regulars know who they are. But Syzygium and Gerard are far from that, so your post must not be anything other than an attempt to stir up drama or just to troll. In either case I advise everyone here not to fall for it.

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32

No I am not confusing them with anyone. Re-read OP’s first post, then my first reply, then the last exchange of me with OP. It is a joke and exaggeration based on OP claims.

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33

Thanks for the defense! I think he was just making a joke though, if I understood the post correctly, so I’m not too much bothered by it other than getting a random ping of being mentioned in a thread.

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34

That is a special observation you make. The complainers all refuse to reveal their main characters to you and the other forum members. Is it really out of shame? Or do they have some fear of in-game retribution which would make their main character unplayable? Shame of no skills may be fixed through learning. There is only one response to hell-camps.

35

An ungrounded fear, surely.

I’ve been posting on the forum and reddit for years under my main’s name and even though I more frequently than not disagree with people I have yet to see attempts of people to make my main ‘unplayable’.

I am not surprised to see though that the same people who are afraid of PvP in a PvP game are the same people who are too afraid to post their opinions under their main’s name.

Tell me, what is it you’re scared of?

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36

Some major alliance with a protection racket taking a special interest in my main character.

37

Scary!

And what would happen if they know who your main is?

38

There is always selection biases towards feedback and devs know that. The hope the generally have is that some minority of those who usually don’t say anything give some input. So Warthunder noticed one year that 75% of their playerbase who bought any premiums played almost entirely in WW2 (I doubt this is true anymore) but they made up less than 10% of the feedback. So obviously count the WW2 feedback as if it was 7 times as much. FC is aware of this. Presumably they have some backend capabilities to determine who the silent majority are. Then just apply some fancy math. We already have the CSM, which is biased towards players who login a lot (as opposed to your odd single boxer who is fully subscribed but logs in once a week who probably doesn’t know what a CSM even is) but again, they know this bias. My favorite example was when CCP proposed the Rorqual and the CSMs (even the nullsec ones) told them “this is too good, everyone in null will flood the market with minerals” and CCP introduced the changes anyways, and then years later nerfed the Rorquals after people already skilled into them. I guess all those skillbooks were supposed to be an ISK sink?

39

I’m a physical guy. I grew up reading people’s body language, so I’m having difficulties understanding when someone is making a joke through textual input alone (doesn’t seem like I’m the only one). If you’re making a joke, put a disclaimer on it, or a laugh emoji or something. And it’s always a good idea to stop attempts to stir up drama. No hurt done there.

40

Delusions of relevance.

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41

That really is an overblown concern.

  1. Most people aren’t that vindictive, plus
  2. Most people are fairly lazy, and
  3. New Eden is a big place.

It’s a lot of trouble to go 30 jumps out of your way just to hunt someone because they said something stupid on the forums. Sure, you might get added as a red contact and, if they happen across you in lowsec or null, that might be your unlucky day. Of course, that could have been the case regardless. (E.g., If Aiko catches you sleeping on a belt, I’d bet my last Skiff that what you did or didn’t post on the forums won’t factor into the equation. Your ass is grass and she’s a lawnmower.)