September 2018 Release - Known Issues

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(Anure) #61

Come on…This will 100% get abused and as someone who would be impacted by such a change, there are a number of reasons they could not have access to it/not tethered:

A) They’ve jumped to a non freeported citadel with freeport in it’s name. (Killed people this way).
B) They’ve decided to use a bait citadel without doing the proper research. (Killed People this way)
C) They are tackled because they neglected to dock up during invuln period. (Killed people this way)

There’s a plethora of reasons people would be on a citadel they no longer, never have had access to and/or aren’t tethered. Not to mention the issue goes deeper than just storing it in a citadel. You can do it while you are tackled as well. It makes 0 sense to completely destroy the game for people who make a lifestyle off of people who make stupid mistakes. Tailoring the game to benefit those who move blindly is a terrible move in my opinion. I think you underestimate how big of an impact this will have.

It isn’t a small subset of people who will be impacted by this. It’s the people that likely dedicate the most time outside of large blobs doing what they love and trying to make a living off of it. Super concerning to say the least.


(Black Pedro) #62

It isn’t.

This is one of those changes that is going to kill content in an insidious way. It’s a content killing one that just going to remove reasons to do stuff, but in a not necessarily one that many players are going to complain about. Their will just be a gradual reduction in loot recovered by hunters as prey learn to use the feature, but they probably won’t even know why. They will just find it harder to catch anything of note, and eventually decide it not worth the effort and stop. They won’t petition or post on the forums or Reddit - they just make a decision hunting other players for loot isn’t worth it and go do something else or quit entirely.

Like all these other safety buffs over the years, this will just be another one make it less worthwhile to be a content creator and incentivize people to grinding resources. And like all the rest, the vibrancy of the game will be weakened for it. Fix contract scam, yes. But not like this.

I think it clear at this point that cranking up safety year after year isn’t working to reinvigorate the game. Maybe it time to try a new direction and add some opportunities for players to interact with each other instead of continually removing them?


(Iakopo Nara) #63

We’ve gone through this process recently before with the tethering abilities that came with Upwell Structures. Before the release and during we described the issues that this would bring if it was allowed to stay in the game.

We’re again addressing an issue that we see effecting our specific gameplay, but it will effect the game larger at a whole. The concept described to us is that its to limit scam contracts. Being that those are rampant and CCP felt they needed to do a little bit to buffer we shouldn’t coddle the entirety of the Eve community for this?

Example such as jump freighter using someone else’s cyno or not reading the right structure goes to the wrong one. The mistake in the past would have been detrimental and meant the loss of the ship and cargo, but now they can panic offload the items into the structure to save high value assets etc.

There are many reasons in the game that people would use the wrong structures, or be caught within the 30s vulnerability after cyno’ing in. This isn’t only an issue with industrial ships like JF’s it extends to all ships jump capable or being bridged etc. and is a safety net for people making those mistakes.

Eve slowly builds in these safety nets that disallow a lot of the hard lessons that Eve players have come to learn from over the years. I would know being on both sides of learning from the mistakes and capitalizing on them.

Edited for relevance


(New Father) #64

First of thank you for your response. As there has been multiple replies since my message, I would like to address those that are mainly relevant to me. Answers can be found below each qoute.

As I have been around playing the game longer than I should have, I have seen changes happen in the game that has had bad effects to certain aspects of the game. Hunting supers and titans hasnt been taken in a positive way in a good while and I certainly do not find this motivating either.

The fact that you can implement such a feature while saying ” broadly we’re not happy with this feature receiving any sort of heavy use” while having a playerbase that are usually willing to go an extra mile to save their ■■■■ of course the feature will be heavily used! We have seen this with the watch list, before that sun cynos, before that garage door cynos (now all removed or marked as expiloits as these were heavily used).

Furthermore, my respects to CSM and the work they do, but I honestly dont think CSM is the ”correct way” for CCP to get a full report of pros and cons of a certain aspect of the game. Mainly as Eve Online is a game which has so many different aspects and ways to be played (nobody knows everything about every aspect of the game). However, I think that making a propper discussion forum and see the feedback there would be way better as you’d have more players of that certain gameplay engaging themselves in the discussions BEFORE the changes hit live servers and having people being mad about it. That only results in bad publicity.

In regards to Kains response I do agree with him as to it being extremely difficult to gather any strong evidence of this physically happening from being the tackler. It would take me hours, which I nolonger have doing ”bug” reports of kills which i think should have had loot without me being certain of it. AND it’s a waste of your time having to look into my reports that may not have any value to it. There are so many other aspects of that game that deserve that attention in my point of view.

In regards to ”We’ll fix it after we’ve seen it’s definately broken” I find this kinda hard to believe as we’ve seen this numorous times and the latest being citadels (within the hunting aspect of the game)

You dont see the effects of this change yet as it usually takes time for people to catch up on the latest change as most people dont read all of them and only realize when told by a corp/alliance member. However, it’ll be months before you see the real change and by then it’ll be too late to change back as the playerbase has adapted to it and will get mad if you go back to ”normal”. The feature will be abused as mentioned before as YOU have a good playerbase that will walk an extra mile to save their hard earned stuff.

As to this there are two aspects of your question. One being his access being removed or him making a ■■■■ up and forgetting to dock and therefore gets tackled.

As to having his access removed I do believe the fact that he decided to jump to a citadel not being owned by his own corp or relatives he took a risk and therefore he might risk losing his stuff. By taking a risk with your ship you should lose your stuff is that prooves to a bad one.

As to not docking even while having access then you’ve made a mistake and therefore deserves to lose your stuff. In that regard i dont mind him being able to deposit his stuff into a citadel which he has access to. BUT only because he can dock, if his ships has a size that doesnt allow him to dock he should not be able to deposit his stuff either even having access to the structure as that otherwise would require another character to move his stuff into THAT structure.

EDIT:
Furthermore, I could see this being an issue to fleet engagements of the defending fleet being able to save their refits/ expensive fits. This is both in larger engagements aswell as smaller fighters. This adds a huge advantage to the defending party as to losses being lower than the attacking fleet.

CCP Lebowski


(New Father) #65

Another problem to this “feature” will be on larger engagements on these structure having titans with mtus depositing loot from their friends/attackers into the citadel while the fight is ongoing. While all defenders losses wont have any drops.


(Black Pedro) #66

Actually, you can save a ship now too, not just the cargo, at least if you have a ship with a fleet hanger.

  1. Store ship in fleet hanger/eject and scoop
  2. Stash ship into enemy/neutral Upwell structure
  3. Asset safety it home

Obviously the largest ships cannot be saved this way, and you require a ship with a fleet hanger which may be often impractical, but you couldn’t do this before.


(Anure) #68

This is actually hilarious. I assume if I am in a Titan and know I am about to die, I can just throw all my stuff into the citadel as well.


(Krytron) #69

D-Scan does the same thing when undocking.


(Rapscallion Jones) #70

Blockquote
How far we have fallen, we used to have to actually dock to unload, now we are discussing whether you can do it while aligning.
Blockquote

And all of this mess started because someone decided a Rorqual, which has less mass than all freighters except the Bowhead, cannot dock on a medium Upwell structure.


(Makavi Madeveda) #71

What are you going to do? Ban customers for your ineptness? You could have simply programmed it so only those with valid contracts could deliver only their contracts contents. But I forget, we’re talking about CCProgramming, here.


(dorfsorc) #72

in case you were wondering, it is still broken quite annoying for people doing PI on multiple characters


(Uriel the Flame) #73

Can’t Code Properly :stuck_out_tongue:


(Salt Foambreaker) #74

This was suggested in testing, they ignored us.


(Rivr Luzade) #75

Haha. The item and ship hangars only disappear when I dock in structures. Docking in NPC stations keeps the hangars open. :rofl:


(Makavi Madeveda) #76

That’s CCProgramming. Can’t even make the bugs consistent.


(Sieg oder Valhalla) #77

I really hope that y’all are working towards making this “fully fixed”, because it’s still incredibly annoying even if it only happens half as often.


(Boomshake) #78

When will be fixed?


(Leahcim Woods) #79

Pressing ALT+C N G Every single time i dock is getting really tiresome :\


(ronny coops) #80

still no fix for the market window . should it not be listed on the known issues list ?


(Ayumu Kasuga) #81

The new launcher update is retarded. There was never a need to have it open a separate window (and why does it take several seconds to open said window?) to input login information. And who thought it would be a good idea to remove its ability to remember your credentials?