Setting own facilities with public access in hi-sec - how dangerous?

I’m thinking about buying Azbel and anchoring it in 0.6 system - for my own (several chars) research/invention jobs and to ease up life to others - with a public access. From Jita I see that several Azbels are sold per day and zKillboard shows them in almost every day kills.

So, how likely is that if I anchor it it will be attacked (I ain’t in a large corp to have defenders 24/7)? Can they defend themselves or all those Standup Multirole Missile Launcher I are waste of ISK?

The structure can’t defend itself. Best defense is fuel - high power structures seem to be reasonable safe in highsec unless someone considers you competition.

For a small group, a private Raitaru probably makes more sense - create a holding corp for it so your operating corp can remain war ineligible and put it in an out of the way system where nobody is going to consider you competition. If someone does decide to kill it a rigged Raitaru is pocket change compared to a rigged Azbel. Open offices in an NPC station in the same system (there are lots of systems where you can still rent an office for 10K ISK/month), that way asset safety takes 5 days and only costs 0.5% instead of 20 days and 15%.

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hmm, I lost several structures (like 10+) in HS in various systems, without making competitions, so I 'm not sure about “reasonable safe”.

Don’t forget to remove all the fuel from your structure if you are wardecced, and only one reprocessing module. Only keep 3D worth of fuel, put more if they don’t attack it. The fuel and the module is the only thing that will drop if you lose it and you removed the industrial modules.

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If you do it, I suggest a Raitaru instead. It’s cheaper and you can still add some annoying E-War to discourage the typical HighSec-Raven Demolition Squad.

Though if you absolutely have to use an Azbel, think long and hard about what a typical attacker would think the most infuriating to deal with and put all of it on there.

Think like this for example, just adjusted to the higher firepower of an Azbel, and add a sensor damp in the third midslot:

[Raitaru, Raitaru fit]

Standup Missile Guidance Enhancer II

Standup Stasis Webifier II
Standup Focused Warp Disruptor II

Standup Multirole Missile Launcher II, Standup Cruise Missile
Standup Heavy Energy Neutralizer I
Standup Heavy Energy Neutralizer I

Standup M-Set Invention Cost Optimization I
Standup M-Set ME Research Cost Optimization I
Standup M-Set TE Research Cost Optimization I

Standup Invention Lab I
Standup Research Lab I
Standup Manufacturing Plant I

The rigs and services are just suggestions, of course! Also don’t forget to change your ammunition when needed, nothing is more hilarious for your enemies than watching you shooting giant structure cruise missiles at tiny interceptors (sometimes used to make you waste ammunition).

Edit:

Something else I just remembered, right after clicking submit: Normally, structures had webifiers because fast ships sig tanking your guns were a real problem for POS-guns. Since Upwell-structures shoot missiles instead (in HighSec, at least), it could be worthwhile to use a damp instead of a web if you only have the two mid slots of a Raitaru.

This way, smartasses coming with logi will need a lot of logi to compensate for the fact that the damp will first force them closer and then force them under the umbrella of your neuts.

Essentially, if you’re just a tiny indy corp, forcing attackers to form up entire fleet compositions to deal with your defenses will make it less likely they’ll try something. There’s lots of people around who don’t try defending their structures, after all! Easier targets.

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They will just bring a one-man fleet of 10 nestors and leshak.
Don’t fool yourself, people WILL target your structure for the sake of targeting it. Remove all the defense modules, they won’t help you.

The cost of rigs for anything other than a medium structure (Astrahus, Athanor, Raitaru) are prohibitive. You are currently better-off using specialized (rigged) medium structures.

Most of the advantages of the structures is in the rigs. If they are T2 rigged, that makes them an increased target for attack, so beware of that.

I’ve lost so many Raitaru and Astrahus that I don’t bother keeping count anymore. Something like 15+ Raitaru and 4+ Astrahus. Perhaps I’m exceedingly unlucky. We also lost an Azbel, but it was in rental nulsec.

Do be sure to use a holding corp alt for ownership of the structures. An Alpha account will do. Do login the holding corp alt daily to check for wardecs (gives an opportunity to cancel jobs and relocate stuff before it lands in asset safety); if you want to defend it, you can become and ally of the holding corp for the duration of the war.

Note that for public access you should have a separate access list (ACL) just for that, as it will be the only place where you can also deny access.

I recommend using the test server, Singularity (the live server is called Tranquility) to learn how to deploy and experiment with things.

Beware of the announced changes which will make all Upwell structures more profitable to attack.

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Taking your example, one ■■■■-up would mean a crumpled Nestor. If the “one-man” attacker then gets nervous, it’s easy to push this hypothetical person into the deep red. Looks like you’re trying to convince someone to make himself an easier target, my friend!

Seriously, this dumb fit I put together in less then 5 minutes is roughly 2 bill worth. That’s about 4-5 Nestors. Unfit Nestors, mind you. A single Nestor blowing up is worth more than all those defense modules combined. If someone is stupid enough to go for it, teach them a lesson.

If you’re not willing to defend your structure at all, why even go through the effort of putting one up? NPC-stations are still there, and zero hassle.

That’s too many assumptions.

A strategy that relies on the opponent making mistakes is a dumb strategy.

You won’t blow a nestor.
They scan your structure, and know by advance how much rep they need to be sure they can hold more than the DPS provided by the structure.

Many people are paid to bash structures. It’s a job for them, optimized and solely dedicated to destruction of your structures. They don’t fight, they just bash. they know that you can’t fight, otherwise they would not wardec you.

Not your concern.

You CAN’T defend your structure. Claiming you can is just foolish. Sure your structure may remain alive for some time, but once someone wants to destroy it, it will go boom and you won’t even scratch a nestor.
Sure sometimes you have people who don’t know what they are doing, who will wardec you on mistake without the ability to destroy your structures. Don’t expect this.

Stop dreaming.
Stop making delusional strategies that rely on other people making mistakes.

You know, your post if filled with dumb assumptions, too. Like thinking a structure fight is about DPS only. Or your assumption that all attackers are both insane and flawless, which is a weird combination of traits to attach to your straw pilots, but OK.

Essentially, you’re just convincing me more and more that you’re part of a group hunting for easy structures to destroy, or just completely ignorant on everything you talk about.

But please, go on about how structure owners shouldn’t defend their structures, seeing you dig yourself deeper with every post is funny to witness. :stuck_out_tongue:

That’s the most stupid answer you can do ?
You claimed a strategy that relies on the attacker being an idiot.
THAT is dumb.

OKAY I can see now, you are just a complete idiot.

Instead of talking about the argument, you attack the person.
Go ■■■■ yourself.

That’s a false attribution.
A strawman from someone who give foolish advices, how surprising.

To add to the defense discussion …

I agree that if somebody really wants your structure removed, it will be removed. It is just a question of how determined they are.

For a small defense force, one unexpected and sometimes suicidal strategy is to use as many smartbomb battleships as you can get people and alts into. However, this strategy rarely works more than once, but can discourage the less dedicated attacker.

And the worst is that if you put stuff on it, that stuff will be an additional reward for the attacker.

Therefore the “defensive modules” incur MORE cost to yourself and MORE reward to the attacker.

Given how weak Raitaru are, I’ve never bothered to fit defenses on one.

An Astrahaus is marginally stronger, but not so much in hisec because of weapon restrictions. I’ve never bothered to fit these either.

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I tried for both. It did not go very well ^^

Now I know that modules on structures are completely useless.

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The economics of setting up your own structure have changed dramatically this week. For a Rairatu the quantum core has more than doubled the cost of the hull, and increased the reward for killing a high power structure to the point where they are worth attacking.

A half dozen FOB rats are quite capable of reinforcing a Raitaru - it’s happened to me a couple of times, so you don’t need a lot of DPS. An Oracle can probably take down an undefended Raitaru by itself.

I suspect a lot of small industrial corps will be watching CCP’s plans for this feature evolve over the next few months before deciding if it’s worth investing an additional 800 million ISK in their structure or simply take it down and rent.

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I would try the ancient technique of diplomacy for anyone interested in taking down your structures, might save you time and isk, and make you some friends.

Well … you can try it, but in my experience they usually ask for ISK.

You really don’t want the word to get around that your corp is an ATM.

Best of luck though!

I did once even offer 30 billion ISK to be allowed 24 hours to EVAC a Raitaru (I was desperate, as it contained borrowed titan BPOs), then I’d transfer the place to them and they could do with it whatever they wanted. They chose to explode it instead. Cost me 54 billion ISK to get the BPOs out of asset safety.

You misspelled stupid technique. That will cost your MORE isk than the structure costs, and they’ll ask for more later on.

If you abide to a racket, you paint a target on yourself.
The only viable answer is to NOT answer them, and accept your loss.

This.
The “pay for peace” is the stupidest thing people do. Either you can shoot them, or you don’t. Paying for peace is the same as getting ■■■■■■ for chastity - except you are also ■■■■■■.

■■■■ … good thing for me that I have a program that warns me when a structure I own is wardecced. I can cancel all jobs if any, and move the BPOs away . Well any how I just decided to remove all my structures so that won’t be an issue for long.

That may be premature. It’s 4 months until cores will be required for existing structures and the mechanic may “evolve”. The current mechanic adds cost and risk but no benefit for structure owners. The “rational” choice does seem to be - take it down and rent.

That said, I doubt CCP wants Tranquility Trade Consortium to have a monopoly on structures in highsec and it’s questionable if anyone else has the ability to defend them. I’ll keep using mine until Christmas and see what the landscape looks like then.

Nope. CCP clearly stated, in an obvious way, that they want indy indus to go ■■■■ themselves. Rather do that now and be clear about it.
If that even does not happen with this patch, CCP will make it happen in the next. They want to make the game annoying as possible for people in high sec, and this is just the final drop in the coffin after making unfueled structure drop assets and triglavians destroy arbitrary systems so that you can’t move in HS anymore.

I can’t do anything to change that, so I rather let them make that delusional game where only nolife players can have a grinding activity while being forced to pay some other players, if that’s what they think is good for the game, I don’t think they actually care about my opinion.

Now the question is what can I do to protect my assets … seems like they are gonna destroy NPc stations soon too, so I guess I should put my BPOs in an alt that I log off in a system on a deep space BM … hoping CCP won’t make it log back somewhere else and killing it.
All other asset… dunno, I guess I should trash those few hundreds of B.