Who is saying this even has a chance of getting implemented?
Then i guess you’re not reading it right.
If you’re asking this question then you still don’t get the concept. Which is odd because it’s pretty much a copy/paste of an already implemented idea that successfully achieved what describe with NONE of the pitfalls your all worried about.
To affect items that don’t make up the majority of the market and cause minor migration.
What did you think the point if production indices was?
You’ve misunderstood the idea from the first post and what I’ve said since. I don’t think you’re in any position to tell anyone what they’ve ‘essentially said’.
How would you prove they work differently.
They are the exact same base mechanic with the exact same principles and goals.
I’m very curious as to why you think they are not the same.
Me.
Lmao. Ok, kid.
Feel free to keep deluding yourself.
Anonymous internet warrior asks an irrelevant question. Gets surprised by honest answer.
Oh well.
And, again, why? If the effects are only minor then what’s the point of spending developer time on this mechanic and increasing complexity? This sounds like a textbook case of someone being in love with their pet idea and clinging to it no matter how much of a waste of time it is.
I’m very curious as to why you think they are not the same.
Because, while the price adjustment mechanic may be the same, the forces guiding player decisions are not the same.
Manufacturing is very loosely tied to location and other players. Yeah, choosing the right system to build in has more than zero effect on your operation but it’s limited to determining how many extra jumps (probably in highsec with negligible risk or effort involved) you have to make compared to a theoretical perfect operation. If it costs 5% less to build stuff in another system you can relatively easily move your production there and pocket the extra ISK. And there’s no real care about where other players are building their stuff, your manufacturing operation is 100% independent from them and their choices.
Markets are very strongly tied to location and other players. By definition you need other players in the same system to buy and sell stuff, and there’s a ton of centralization pressure working against anyone who tries to buy and sell outside of the major hub(s). You can’t just pick up your market operation and move to another system on a whim because it doesn’t matter how favorable the NPC costs are if there aren’t enough players around to fill your buy/sell orders. And if you do manage to establish a functioning market in another system there’s a lot of pressure for everyone else to move to that system because that’s where all the buyers/sellers are.
In short, the centralization pressure is very different for manufacturing vs. market trading and mechanics that work well for one do not necessarily work well (or even the same way) for the other.
To spread trade out a bit.
Why do it to spread industry out a bit?
Hardly.
Three people think the world will end or ‘I’m gonna game this so hard!’. I’m just pointing at present mechanics and wondering where all the pants shitting is coming from.
Most of the arguments against presented thus far are…well silly. Including the one where you feared for your ship fitting.
You’re right, aside from the indices themselves, production is generally independent of other players. You’re probably onto something there. Just not enough for me to worry about the idea When it comes to trading any items you’ve produced the exact same rules start to apply.
The time spent moving and maybe even the risk involved removes the small material/build cost benefits. The same as many players seeking lower tax. The time spent moving would be better spent not moving.
Much like the production indices did, it won’t cause mass migration out of jita, but instead offer a meaningful choice to those outside of jita when it comes to shoving all their junk into a hauler and shipping it to a market.
Jita and the surrounding area still has the highest indices for production in hisec. If this change was implemented, it will most likely still have the highest index for trade. The majority of people living there will continue to live there. It’s not the purpose of the idea to have the population of players and trading become uniform across new eden.
The market might be a little emptier when it comes to faction items, and maybe T2 and whatever else happens with resource distribution. But at the same time other markets will be fuller. And hauling will have a little extra depth when it comes to such items.
Holy cow …
WHY would anyone WANT this?
Please explain why forcefully attacking and ruining things that develop completely naturally is a good thing, because I’m not seeing it. If you already did, please point me at the respective post.
Not according to the OP.
If the goal was to spread out production so people would not need to move to the nearest hub for their modules, then regional incentives for production would be a far more reasonable approach compared to changing the whole system.
Still, I don’t see there being a demand for that. If the demand existed, it would already be a thing. Fact is that there’s plenty of little supermarkets literally everywhere, unless I’m talking out of my ancient ass because I’m not up to date anymore.
But you’ve already conceded that your idea doesn’t spread trade out in any meaningful way. So why implement an ineffective change?
Most of the arguments against presented thus far are…well silly. Including the one where you feared for your ship fitting.
How is it silly? It’s an obvious result of decentralizing the markets. The only reason I don’t have to be concerned with that if your idea is implemented is that your idea is utterly ineffective. A more effective hub-breaking plan would very definitely cause that problem.
When it comes to trading any items you’ve produced the exact same rules start to apply.
They really don’t, because you completely missed the point of how the two are different. There may be some similarity between manufacturers hauling a few extra jumps and market sellers hauling a few extra jumps but you’ve completely ignored the customer side of it. If I’m buying something on the market I don’t care where it was produced, and I don’t even see that information. But I do care very much about which system it is being sold in. The result is that a manufacturer can move their operation without losing any customers at all (as long as they continue moving the finished items to the same sale location), a market trader can not do the same and faces vastly higher pressure to remain in the same location.
That depends on what has formed naturally.
Capital proliferation developed naturally. Afk ratting developed naturally. Not everything that develops naturally is the best possible scenario. That’s one of the biggest reasons why changes happen in any game.
Small amounts =/= meaningless or ineffective.
It’s not a choice between can’t fit ship or centralised market. That is a silly argument. There is an in-between.
That’s litterally why I asked you
(I am assume that naturally here means “made by rational choice of players following the game design” )
Hmhmhm.
Damn.
Jita exists, because salesmen pick places where many roads intersect and or many travellers pass by. The environment shapes the development. People settle down there, where salesmen offer their goods, where travelling from one place to another is fastest or most convinient, where there are good hunting grounds nearby. Or lakes. Jita developed. It grew. More and more people settled in and around it. Grew? Is grew a word? Sheesh.
“Guybrush Threepwood grew into a mighty pirate.” … Okay, it’s a word. 
AFK ratting exists out of greed and or lazyness. It’s not something that somehow formed or developed. Greed is a requirement for survival in times of scarcity … though I have no idea about this. Hmhmhm.
Capital proliferation. Mine is bigger than yours. When yours is bigger than mine, then I must catch up.
A change towards the taxation system would influence many lifes, not necessarily for the better. I agree that Jita will most likely stay as it is anyway, because it simply has too much momentum for anything to change about this, combined with the fact that it’s really a great connector between multiple systems. I’m sure there’s a word for that, but it doesn’t come to mind and I’m tired.
AFK ratting is just ■■■■■■■■. Born out of greed and not in any way or form a necessity or requirement, at all. Being a loser doesn’t mean afk ratting is a necessity, even though they of course believe otherwise.
Capital profiterols. mmmm profiterols. Changes here affect, in comparison, not many. Arms races are never good. They don’t serve any actual purpose but to feed the egos of those who give the orders. M.A.D. only works when all sides are at least minimally capable of wiping the other sides out completely.
Hm.
I don’t know.
lol.
Sure it’s not linked to tediousness of farming, that is required eg to play in null.
Lol. All i was saying that just because something occurs naturally, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s an optimal situation.
I disagree with merin that there is no balance in-between leaving things as they are and people struggling to fit their ship.
So if your proposed mechanic has the sole effect of causing one person to move one market order worth 1 ISK to a system next to Jita you would still consider it a success? What exactly is the threshold where you would consider the effect too small and abandon your proposal?
It’s not a choice between can’t fit ship or centralised market. That is a silly argument. There is an in-between.
There really isn’t. If you can effortlessly fit your ship in the primary market system without even bothering to look at other systems then you have a centralized market.
Another meaningless question.
I’ll say the idea has worked when at least say 10% of players that would have normally hauled to jita haul to another market.
But what difference does it make. 10% - 20%. You can’t tell me with 100% certainty how players will react to such an change. You don’t even know what the tax modifiers would be, let alone have a crystal ball.
You dislike the idea conceptually. And can’t even get that right.
This is going to go round and round.
I’ll bow out of the thread until new questions/points come up.
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