Shooting player’s spaceships in EvE is not toxic behavior

Under Destiny’s rule that AI have no sociopathy, as we’re all just simulants in a simulated world then everyone is an NPC in some game being played by a spotty 113th dimensional schoolboy on his Hyperdimensional Quantum PC…so fire away !

Not subbing or buying anything after the New Player Identification period means you are by default griefing and a full ban will ensue.

Cant have you bothering the noobs now.

That would result in UNACCEPTABLE financial LOSSES

No, it is pretty different. There is a clear expectation that anyone can attack any one at any time in the EvE game.

I have never been a member of a boxing club, but I have gone to a kempo and a judo school and there the expectation is everyone is very disciplined about attaching each other, and even full on sparing is only allowed in controlled situations where everyone agrees that they participate.

This is the opposite of the non consensual pvp nature of EvE.

The code is usually written by workers hired and instructed to write it, so not necessarily.

However, anyone who creates the idea for a game in which other players can be attacked without their consent and/or owns/funds the project should probably be held liable and face civil/criminal charges in real life, assuming that we can evolve our judicial system to prosecute such actions.

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Guess I’ll be back to Counter-Strike: Source then or maybe start up some new game. Have hundreds of never before played games on Steam and GoG that were given away or bought dirt cheap when they were on discount. :sweat_smile:

Worrying about “toxic” behavior, moral codes, or trying to limit player actions based on people’s perceptions of other people is pretty much a fool’s game.

All that really matters is, what’s the end result?

Some players in other games consider it “toxic” that other players multi-box. In EVE it’s the norm.

Some players consider it griefing when other players run up and start mining “their” crafting node in a game, right in front of them! When they were obviously just about to mine that node themselves so it was ‘theirs’, clearly.

If you made the entire game perma-green safety, some players would find a way to call it toxic when someone else pulled into the same asteroid field and starting mining ‘their’ asteroids.

Just look at the end results - which have been consistent for years now. Only a small percent of EVE players even bother to engage in PvP. Most of the activity in game is PvE and economy oriented. PvP offers very limited rewards and isn’t really all that engaging in EVE to begin with.

The mechanics are slow, the availability is limited, the interaction minimal. Over time you’re left with a group of players that have been self-selected by survivor bias - not of surviving a battle but simply by being the small niche able to tolerate EVE’s peculiar balance of risk-averse PvE’ers and near-equally risk-averse PvP’ers.

And that niche gets smaller daily.

If you want the status quo to change, don’t focus on the surface reactions of the survivors. Look at the fundamental game mechanisms that trigger those reactions and decide how they need to be altered.

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I prefer the industrial side of things. I like to build. I understand opportunity costs, but I like to source all of my own material anyway because I find that satisfying. In fact in Eve Echoes (which I only play when I am at work or something and cannot play real Eve) I just bought a set pf structure blueprints to do exactly that with. It is going to take me a long time and I like it. So I would disagree with the premise that Eve can only be played as direct pvp, though I will grant that even station trading is ultimately pvp).

BUT

I have also come to accept that I would not have been playing Eve for years if it was all solveable. Where to find materials is known. How to deal with npc pirates is solveable. At that point it is just a mindless grind to build anything. What keeps me engaged, aside from recent (laughable) efforts to start getting my direct pvp feet wet, is the unsolveable. It is watching dscan and local, deciding if I want to use an exhumer or if a more agile Endurance or Prospect is better for the job, figuring out how to safely get to the materials in more dangerous parts of space and back, that keeps me engaged.

I do not enjoy being ganked. But I would not enjoy Eve for long without the possibility of it.

Aside from all of that, for people that really just want to build and sell stuff, a fair number of items would quickly lose nearly 100% of their value if there was a reasonable, completely safe space to use them. Someone mentioned the badger above. Everyone could get three free from career agents (I believe–havent done them in a while, but if not then another industrial ship) and never need to buy another.

I am more on the industrial side of things and I confess that ganking is like a fat bottom girl. It makes my industrial world go 'round.

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The whole Eve economy is driven by ships being blown up. Given that the majority of PvE is pretty easy stuff and therefore doesn’t involve many ship losses, PvP drives the economy. If it wasn’t for PvP then supply would be greater than demand and the economy would nosedive.

So as an absolute, Eve requires PvP.

No doubt there is an issue with toxicity. With social media et al we’re in an era of keyboard warriors that not only don’t think and don’t care about what mischief they cause, but they actually thrive on the salty tears. As were in a ‘live by the sword, die by the sword’ world, a lot is justified, but there is definitely an element of bullying. Unfortunately within a sandbox environment you need to take the rough with the smooth and hope that eventually the scalliwags will go too far and be ostracised, either by CCP or the rest of Eve.

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OK so the people instructing them to write it are the sociopaths :slight_smile:

( See, this is why no-one has a resolution to Searle’s 'Chinese Room ’ )

Well, technically the people truly responsible are parents and education administrators, because they are in control of these people’s improper upbringing that results in the corruption of their moral values. But the line needs to be drawn somewhere, so I think it would be safe and acceptable to say that anyone directly responsible for the creation of games in which PvP can happen without player consent should face legal/criminal repercussions.

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Along with holding anyone responsible for non-consensual pvp. With real life fines, community service, and in the more extreme and habitual cases, imprisonment.

There is also a ‘block’ function in chat, precisely for such situations.

And the clear expectation that anyone can be robbed, spied on, betrayed, scammed, be taken advantage of by crooked traders in real life as well.
It’s good to always remember where the real world ends, and the game begins.

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Why would you ever want a fair fight?

All of warfare is about killing the other person before they kill you. Why would you want a fair fight?

Once they leave noobland, they ain’t noobs no more :smiley:

I always find it fascinating when peeps can’t keep vidya games and reality separate. We talking about the vidya game bud. Keep up :smiley:

I get the sense that line is real blurry for Lucas :smiley:

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If you think being able to ‘block’ chat is a solution to bullying behavior then you haven’t really thought about it much. I should have said griefing rather than bullying though tbh

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If you block them, you can’t see the chat LOL.

Although people who block others are wussies :smiley:

I will also add that there are a LOT of people that have no inclination to try and see the big picture. Many peoples minds are purely focussed on the now, not the tomorrow. They’ve been wrapped in cotton wool by their parents and been given a ‘reality’ which isn’t compatible with the real world. There are far too many immature adults around unfortunately.

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My guy, you know we playing a vidya game right?

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There are plenty of objects to give a name to which allow you to communicate bypassing chat. People can still grief others anonymously ingame while still communicating outside the game. You still really need to think about it more lol

I can’t even remember the last time I checked the name of something you can put in space.

Try harder bro :smiley: