Should the Procurer get a PG buff?

So, I actually want to begin by looking at the skiff, because I think it provides a great example for how I’d like to see the Procurer balanced. Now, both ships got a buff to PG. However, the Skiff’s PG was sufficiently large as to provide players with an interesting choice. Let’s take a closer look.

"Lightly" Tanked Skiff

Here we have a “lightly tanked” Skiff before implants and boosts. It has 2x MLU’s, but this comes at the opportunity cost of fitting 2 LSE’s.

Tanky Skiff

And, here we have a Skiff that traded 7% of it’s yield for a 15% increase in tank (before implants and boosts have been factored in).

So, to me, this is great balance. You can chose to maximize yield, or to maximize tank -but you can’t have both. You have to chose what you value more. Needless to say, I love the way this works, and I would love it if the procurer worked the same way.

Unfortunately, the procurer has what I consider to be a troll amount of power grid. While, you can technically fit an LSE in on there, it requires sacrifices that make it of dubious benefit. Thus, it doesn’t present players with meaningful choice, but instead the illusion of choice. Let’s take a closer look.

Hull Tanked Procurer

First, here’s a hull tanked Proc. It only has one MLU, but two open mids and plenty of fitting room gives it a lot of options -i.e. tackle, survey scanner, prop mod, and/or shield tanking mods for even moar tank. So, I like the choices this fit provides. Sacrifice yield, for more utility, combat capabilities, or more tank.

MSE Procurer

Next, we have a shield tank proc with an MSE. When compared to the hull tanked fit, it trades utility/combat capabilities for increased yield, and it receives a much larger benefit from shield boosts. For example, a straight hull tanked proc will only have 73.7k EHP when boosted, while this MSE proc will hit 82.8k EHP. I like this -this is meaningful choice. Unfortunately, things break down when you compare this fit to an LSE fit…

LSE Procurer

The procurer’s PG is sufficiently large to fit an LSE, but it requires two fitting mods to do so. The Reactor Control Unit decreases yield -which I think is fine. However, it also requires a Medium Ancillary Current Router on top of that. This has the effect of dramatically decreasing the amount of extra tank you get out of the fit because you have to sacrifice a tanking rig. Of course, another option is to fit a reactor control unit and 3% PG upgrade, but this option also requires PG Upgrades and Shield Upgrades V to do, which I think is asking too much of a Procurer pilot. Now, I don’t think expecting procurer pilots to have PG Upgrades V is completely unreasonable, but I definitely think that it’s too much to also expect them to have Shield Upgrades V as well. Moreover the LSE is already a compact variant, thus lower skill pilots don’t have the option of downgrading from a T2 to a compact (they can make a cheap Compact + Decayed Abyssal, but I think that’s also a big ask for a Procurer pilot). For comparison, the skiff has enough fitting room that high skill players can upgrade one of the LSE’s to a T2 variant, while lower skill players can make things easier by fitting two compact LSE’s.

So, why would you chose an LSE fit over an MSE fit? Well, I don’t think that you should. Technically, it does have the highest EHP of all 3 fits after boosts, but it’s such a paltry amount that I don’t anyone would consider it to be worth the loss of yield.

Now, I don’t know why they gave it enough PG to make fitting an LSE tempting, but not enough to actually make it worth the trade-offs. If they didn’t buff the Procurer PG at all, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. But, the PG it has now feels like a miscalculation. It’s like they intended for it to be like the Skiff, where players could chose between maximizing tank or yield, but got the math wrong or something.

Personally, I feel like it should have enough PG so that you can fit an LSE with just a reactor control unit and Shield Upgrades IV. You shouldn’t also need perfect skills, implants, abyssals, and/or engineering rigs on top of that for a T1 barge.

But what do you think?

And, if this post can gain some traction with the community, I’ll at some of the devs with it.

Higher EHP itself means little to nothing. Unless change increases or decreases amount of catalysts needed.

You shouldn’t compare EHP but gankers needed. Just like you did in that chart in other discussion. And if I remember correctly (from your other chart) update didn’t really impact gankers needed to gank proc. Which in reality changed almost nothing.

Also, afik plagioclase can be found in 0.9 and down systems. Which is second most profitable ore in hisec. I don’t understand why anyone would mine in 0.5 systems.

In the end, no tank will save you from gank. It only determines how easy prey you are. I would always prioritize yield. I prefer more guaranteed isk to replace ship. Than lost isk (due to smaller yield per frame of time) and minimal to zero increase in safety.

1 Like

Yeah, I should have included a chart. But yes, it would make a difference to number of ships required to gank it under most conditions.

And while I’m at, I should specify, that I am not arguing that the procurer needs even more tank to be worth it. It just seems like there was a disconnect between developer intent, and what we actually got.

But I dunno.

I agree, the Procurer should get a (small!) PG buff.

One way I made a LSE fit work with only 1 fitting module:

T1 mining, LSE + 1x fitting module

Downsides of that fit:

  • it requires max fitting skills (esp. shield upgrades V)
  • not enough PG for T2 mining
  • it’s still using 1 fitting module and a compact LSE so you have very little build flexibility

I really think the Procurer should have at least 3 PG more than it currently has, if the point of the PG upgrade was to make it so that (max skill) people can fit a LSE on a T2 mining Procurer with a fitting module.

Or 21 more PG, if LSE is supposed to be the new default for Procurers, which allows (max skill) players to equip a compact LSE on their fit without fitting modules, and allows players with less than perfect fitting skills to use only 1 fitting module to equip the LSE rather than 2.

1 Like

Hey, do you have an up to date breakdown of ore based on sec status. Like, I’ve found breakdowns based on HS/LS/Null/WH/Pochven, but I want to know the specific breakdowns (i.e. 1.0, 0.9, ectetera), and my search results keep returning old info.

And, if you don’t have a link, can you tell me what you do know off hand -pretty please, with scordite on top.

There is an EVE outside of high sec gank scenarios.

Higher EHP for Procurers will help against rats in null sec belts. Will help in fights against players who aren’t racing the CONCORD timer. Will help fleets of Procurers against a hostile gang outside high sec, or in high sec while in a war. Will help a Procurer to be bait to hopefully draw out that cloaky camper in system and tackle people long enough before he dies when people take the bait.

Not every Procurer pilot has ganking catalysts as enemies.

1 Like

This seams to be up to date.

Edit: It don’t show system sec breakdown… Afik in hisec nothing changed with what we had before. They just removed kerenite and omber(?). Nothing else changed.
Veldspar and scordite - 1.0 - down
Plagioclase - Gallente, Minmatar 0.9 - down and Caldari from 0.7
Pyroxeres - Amarr, caldari 0.9 - down

There is. But I intentionally didn’t talk about scenarios I don’t have experience in. You get benefit of the doubt and I wont consider this as another EVE forum dig…

From what I know, from my limited null mining experience. Proc is more than capable to deal with null rats on it’s own and changes to drone bandwidth probably made it even easier.

1 Like

Forum dig? I would never… ! :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyway, that wasn’t the intention. I just wanted to note that EHP of the Procurer does matter beyond ganker calculations and that the shield EHP matters for how long a Procurer can stay on grid.

It’s been a while since I did solo Procurer mining in null, but there are situations when enough battleships warp in (or worse, a dread) that you cannot tank them indefinitely with your passive shield regeneration while your drones deal with them. (Side note: the Endurance can however do that, by killing the smaller stuff and sigtanking the bigger ones. I really like that little frigate.)

1 Like

not so much mining, but thats the only locations of moons in hisec… so taking moons out of the equation, what you say probably makes sense, but with moons, those are reasons to stay in 0.5 space.

1 Like

Procurer need more midslots. 3 is absolute min. PWG will help too. Maybe also utility hislot.

It’s half-combat ship after all.

  1. Yes
  2. Did you notice how none of the usual CCP sux posters are here? Its probably cause yennoe we actively trying to provide feedback in a positive way to achieve balance and fun for all.
1 Like

This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.