Are you seriously asking me why an established corp where a CEO has both the knowledge and wealth to help new players, is better than a CEO who has neither knowledge nor wealth?
Wont you agree with me that setting the bar higher, increases accountability and punishes people who fail, more than our current system of 1.4 million isk infinite corp creation system?
Wouldnt you want your CEO to be more invested and held accountable if he is going to recruit people into his corp and potentially rake in isk from taxes?
The skill lock, prevents people from making a corp now and realizing its not the right thing to do later.
We get new players who constantly ask whether its worth skiling up something, before they skill it, because obviously they dont want to spend 10 days queuing up something that they wont need or use.
If the option is between creating a shitty corp that you have no idea how to run, that would ruin your fun and the people you recruit, and having to skill for 10 days and therefore asking if its a good idea to waste 10 days on queuing it, id rather people go to the latter option.
I wouldnāt mind higher barriers of entry for corps.
I also wouldnāt mind a recurring payments for keeping up a corp akin to the corp offices. Hopefully, it would close some of the many inactive corps that hold up the good corp names/tickers.
But that is just my opinion. Have no experience running a big corp, so I get that it is probably a PITA feature.
Wouldnt that include the ability to destroy the structure in question?
Thats because you actually never ran a player corp before.
Player corps allow for standard bookmarks and standings to be set and shared for all players automatically and without fail. They allow you to create They create necessarily private chat channels that require you to be a part of the corp, and therefore is recorded in your corporation history, as well as automatically makes players join said channel and see the MOTD. They allow for the sharing of corp assets through the hangar system. They allow for calendar events to be set, displayed and reminded of.
But the largest potentially positive, potentially negative aspect of a player corp, is that the tax can be set and goes towards the corp wallet. If you have a good corp with a good leader, he will spend that isk on things to further improve the corporation and its support base. Theres no way to tax other players in an NPC corp reliably.
In the past, though, it used to be that the wardec, the ability to wardec and kill your opponent, was the downside of a player corp.
I agree that should raise the bar 2 billion isk that forces people to grind and know what theyāre doing before they go make a corporation or Buy in and be stupid like I was for a long time
other station is already anchored and away they go again, they can run incursians, mine and explore to their hearts content without the worry of being forced to dock with no war dec to worry about, the isk flows and nothing to stop it.
you seem to think this canāt happen and the cost of a station loss wonāt be worked into their costs and become just a pesky percentage that crops up now and then on their spread sheets.
i hope iām wrong,
but hey, the path of least resistence is their way. the non PVPer doesnāt want PVP so why wouldnāt they say meh, it lasted 6 months and we made x amount of profit, it payed for itself already so yea, pull the fitting and fuel and lets move to alt corp number blah blah and use that station now, until they hit that one, then rinse and repeat.
iād say theyāll lean more towards what iāve just said and less towards PVP and defending, why invest x amount of isk when it makes sense to move operations and replace the structure. cuz hey, whatās to stop them sucking on that sweet isk udder
what to do??? blow up every structure in high sec??? that might take a while
letās hope CCP are fast to reeact if this really breaks shite. i donāt live in high sec so this war dec change isnāt something mechanicaly in game iād have to worry about, but for general game play and so on. weāll see i guess.
No the bar should not be raised, one of the most effective ways to learn is by making mistakes and playing together with others is the best way to enjoy Eve. Making it harder to do that would be a huge error.
Of course people donāt like the idea of people having holding corps for their structures and being able to continue to play normally if that corp gets war decked which is the reason you suggested this at a guess, please advise if this assumption on my part is wrong. Still the structure is a loss and if rigged a sizeable one at that and if the war deckers do remove a lot of the structures in hisec that currently exist then the game changes.
I think that this chap gets it:
Thanks for that point as it is very valid, that is what they need to do.
In other words if you war deckers want to step up your game you have to grind a bit and not rely on mechanic changes, now where have I heard that said? Sorry for the sarcasmā¦, but it is kinda funny.
oh i get it alright, but the amount of stations in high sec is pretty huge, add into that mix the ability to grind without wars to worry about leads towards being able to replace them faster than they are popped.
what if this leads towards an increase in PVE only corps, weāll have a whole generation of pilots in high sec whoāll never feel the need to defend themselves, theyāll never get the experience needed to fight back and never catch the PVP bug iāve known a lot of guys over the years that started as industrial/PVE and only begun to learn the skills needed to fight back when they had no choice but to learn, every one of them said wow, iāve missed out on so much of EVE, why didnt i do this sooner.
never being war decced is a bad thing in my opinion.
Well it is a grind, they have to work to get the rewards, but in terms of the replacement of the structure I agree, but the fitting, the rigs and the structure no, it is a serious loss.
Serious hisec indy needs to use structures to get near nullsec, NPC stations do not cut it unless you are dabbling for fun.
I think having corps develop and then deciding to put up a structure is better for hisec, the only thing that bothers me is the inability to ally without a structure.
Are you kidding me. How can someone be this dim witted. The entire reason why we have a new Citizen Q&A, why we teach people, is that so they dont make the same mistakes that we do. Thats the entire reason why Wardecs were removed against non-structure corps to begin with. By your logic, the CSM and CCP wouldve said āHey, they should just learn from their mistakes, leave the corp and join a better one.ā Clearly new players werent doing this, which lead to them changing the wardeccing mechanic.
Sure, playing together with others is the best way to enjoy eve. But how does raising the bar to creating corps, make that harder to do? You can still join any corporation you want to.
What it does do, is make it harder for people who have no idea how to run a corp, and who, as you say, are making a huge mistake, from making a corp and recruiting people and ruining their experience and preventing new players from having a good time.
People who genuinely have the knowledge, experience, and wealth to support new players, will have no problem spending a bill or so in creating a new corporation.
Have you actually seen war deckers telling people to jump into T1 cruisers and fight to learn, I was actually being a bit sarky over that, but I think you should not molly coddle people with punitive mechanics, making mistakes is the basis of Eve. But tell me where is the difference between the two situations, learning from screwing up the running of a corp, or learning by throwing yourself with no chance against a bling fitted RR backed war decker. So tell me the difference please, because I am dim witted obviously?
However is it your intention to block the structure holding corp with this suggestion? You did not get around to replying to that question with the desire to throw dim witted at meā¦
This is the problem, not the cost of creating a corp. Why punish everybody, when the only real solution is to not bind wardecs to structures? And if you were to solve it by money, 500m is something that every safebear will happily pay - not an issue for them. If anything, they should pay 500m per week.
Anyhow, I hope CCP ācomes upā (simply takes player suggestion) with a whole lot better wardec system and gets rid of this temporary āsolutionā asap.
Its not that simple, with corp mechanics and recruitment.
The new player, who doesnt know any better, is looking towards the person who is what he sees as the leader of the corporation, to teach him. All the advice about EVE and how to play the game, he receives from the top. Making mistakes is fine, but only if there is a clear method of learning from your mistakes.
How does a new player learn form his mistakes, when the person who is benefiting from his mistakes, is the same person that is teaching him how to play the game?
How does a new player even realize hes maken a mistake, by joining such a crappy corporation? Whoās going to tell him that hes made a mistake? Certainly not the CEO.
Heres the difference.
Screwing up by throwing yourself with no chance against a bling fitted RR backed war decker, only ruins your experience and affects you.
Screwing up running a corp, ruins the experience of everyone under your tutelage as a CEO, and affects everyone under you.
Im fine with people who make mistakes, and pay for it themselves. But having others pay for your mistake? Ruining the experience of other people, people who dont know any better, people who are new to the game, because of your incompetence?
I didnt get around to replying to that question, because I never posited or discussed getting rid of structure holding corps. That was a separate discussion from another person.
Easy, you use your own noddle, you read up, you compare and learn from multiple sources.
The onus is on the new player to develop his understanding of what is a good or bad corp, I mean I did it.
But your suggestions would make it more difficult and costly, making it more costly for corps would do that, but most of all it would hurt new players doing a corp together and having fun with that. I would leave it as it is.
How does having someone grind 500 Mil isk provide any kind of ability to do any of this.
You are trying to create an arbitrary bar based on grind.
Requiring training X skill to V would also be an arbitrary bar.
Any bar has to be a soft one, based on the ability to take actions as a CEO that provide mechanical benefits of some kind. Not just soft meta benefits educating people but actual measurable in game onesā¦ but these to then not be compulsory to take those actions.
That then separates out the active engaged CEOās from the inactive ones, and allows players in the corps to see direct benefits from their CEOās work rather than having to have learnt enough to see the meta.
Now these benefits obviously canāt be āx% to DPS, y% to tankā, and I donāt have great ideas for them myself, but if you want to raise the bar, thatās the direction it needs to go in, not in an arbitrary time gate or grind mechanic.
I donāt see anything broken here.
Raising the bar for corps creation is not the way forward. Corps serve very different functions, it might be a few friends who just want to chat and help each other or it may be a corp with a certain agenda, actively recruiting to achieve it. By making the bar higher you remove options from people. I think having a low cost is a good incentive for people to do what they want in the sandbox of EvE, right from the get go.
There is also plenty of incentive to join existing corps out there, and there is advertising going on to catch the interest of people looking for a corp. If it is a well run corp you stay, if it is badly run, you leave. It is really up to people to find out for themselvesā¦ eventually badly run corps just cease to exist by themselves due to lack of popularity, no reason to regulate from a game point of view.
So your suggestion is that new players should be left to figure out everything by themselves, and that the game should not help in any way to describe or explain how it works? We should throw out all the new player experience systems or tutorials?
How so? Wouldnt new players still be able to join the same corp as each other, and have fun together? Why would a new player need to create their own corp in order to have fun or play together?
Id say that actually educating and teaching people how to play the game, is a lot more important than X amount of hours spent running missions half afk. Even a Bot can do that.
But youre replacing one arbitrary bar with another. The only difference between our ideas is that mine necessitates a certain investment in the corp, while yours is no different than what a person would do in an NPC corp or a solo tax haven corp.
iāve known a lot of guys over the years that started as industrial/PVE and only begun to learn the skills needed to fight back when they had no choice but to learn, every one of them said wow, iāve missed out on so much of EVE, why didnt i do this sooner.