I’m confused as to why you think carriers are useless in PVP? This seems to be a weird discussion where you think bigger is better, but it’s not, it’s different. A sledgehammer is not better than a framing hammer, it’s different. It’s used for different things. I could try to use them interchangeably but it would make both jobs very inefficient. Carriers are amazing ships when used correctly. Fighters basically decided the biggest battle of the last war.
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Then you are again delusional. I did not claim such a thing.
I agree with this as well, I know very well how much CCP has Screwed many things up, I do agree that they need to be buffed and much more powerful, but also still expensive and skill intensive, because it shouldn’t be the brunt force of big coalitions Combat Fleets they should only be taken out when needed not hey we 100’s of capitals or 1000’s let’s take them out for fun cause we all have one… CCP has done so many things against the players in the name of money, greed will be their downfall, Still waiting for them to unlock the door, Walking in Station Should be brought back, it had so much potential and they screwed that up over PVPer’s whining about it! somedays I have been on the edge of heading to Star Citizens, at least they listen to all their players, not just one group…
I assume you’re asking for this:
I briefly glanced through the thread, so I apologize in advance if I’m misrepresenting your argument.
Anyway, it looks like you want the game balanced so that bigger/more expensive/more skill intensive is straight up better than smaller/cheaper/less skill intensive. Eve doesn’t work that way, and that’s a really good thing.
There are no mechanics or matchmaking in Eve that ensure “fair fights” or even matches (well, outside of the arena and tournaments). So by not making bigger be straight up better, that means that outcomes are not determined by who did the most grinding, spent the most cash, and/or has been subbed the longest. Moreover, diminishing the importance of SP and ship cost in outcomes means that player skill gets to play a much bigger role. Balancing this way means that you don’t have to be a no-lifer or wallet warrior veteran with hundreds of millions of SP (or join a blob) in order to be competitive. You just need knowledge and a good attitude.
And, since I’ve had this argument before, let me go ahead and respond to the counter argument to this: “Well, that makes more expensive ships worthless then.”
Um, no it doesn’t. Instead of there being a clear progression system where bigger is better in all ways, bigger is better in some ways, but worse in others. And, instead of just flocking to the most expensive, most skill-intensive ship, it’s up to players to try to pick the right tool for the job… And, I think that’s great for the game as well, as it presents players with a ton of meaningful choice.
And not for nothing, but the people who tend to want ship cost and skill reqs to play a bigger role tend to be the people who are short on player skill. Not saying that applies to you, but if it does, maybe consider improving your knowledge and execution if you want better outcomes.
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Yes im want the picture.
Reality: subcapital fighters do 0 to none dps to almoust anything.
Im want to apply whit subcap fighters to cruishers and higer.
Reality : sub cap fighters apply only to battleships.
Even battle criushers outrun fighters after patch making aplication 0.
Im want to have counterplay to be able to cauch and hold enemy like they can do to me.
Reality: sirenes are so slow that even mwd battleship outrun them. Im cant use web + point fighters anymore.
Any kind of aplication is just on paper since im cant point anything cause even ab ship outrun sirenes im actuali cant kill anything.
In reality capitals are ussless.
Appliing 0 dmg whit no real way to prevent target from warp iznt balance.
Its ussless subcapital fighters dont do dmg and sirenes dont point anything more then few seconds
Im wery happy where haw dreads are for example. But carriers… They are sooo ussless
versus subcaps. Which is good.
Hmmm no. A cap should have some tacking ability to hit sub caps.
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It can hit.
Also as you wrote it can apply to BS.
Yeah. A “fair” fight isn’t actually a fight.
No im wrote that you can appy only to battleship. Im didnt claim you actuali hit it.
Im did say that thanks to the slowness of fighters your target easili outrun the fighters after mwd cycle run out.
Im claimed that hiting subcaps is actuali only on parer since drones wont chatch the target and there is no way to hold it.
Please dont lie to prove something im never say
Good thing I was answering to you then.
Please stop insulting me.
You’ve completely missed the logic …
Lets look at this practically from a military RL perspective…
What is a carriers job ?
To launch small highly maneuverable and agile aircraft that can take out, land targets, ships, other aircraft etc, essentially they are designed to take out small stuff 90% of the time but still be able to defend themselves if needed.
What is a dreadnoughts job?
Essentially a dreadnought from WWII onwards is an anti-capital ships, that pack a hefty punch can take a beating, their vulnerable to aircraft (sea witch aside) , covert stuff (e.g. Subs or what we’d call Black Ops) , and other dreadnoughts.
The point here is CCP designed capital ships to fulfil a role that they now don’t fulfil, what is the point of a Carrier that can’t kill ships smaller than itself ?
That’s kinda the whole point of a carrier, there vulnerable to other capitals and multiple battleships but how on earth does a single Battleship outrun 3 squadrons of what should be highly agile fighters ?
This logic here is fairly simply as to how the mechanics should work
Titan / Super > Dreadnought / Carrier
Dreadnought > Carrier
Carrier > Sub Cap (unless overwhelmed)
As you will see from this a carrier will be highly vulnerable to a fleet of more than lets say 20 people, and massively vulnerable to Dreads and up.
A Dread however wont track a sub-cap and so would be a sitting duck without a response fleet even if it could tank for a while.
Titans/Supers well this is where it should be a Cap/Super Vs Cap/Super fight
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