Siege Green - Structure Updates Now Avaialble for Testing

[CCP_Aurora]

Greetings Capsuleers,

We recently released an update aimed at balancing the combat power of structure weapons, to allow for a wider variety of ships to participate on-grid during structure contests. At that time we said this was the first of several updates aimed at bringing improved balance to structures in New Eden - and now we’re ready to show you the next step of those changes today.

Updates to Damage Caps
The minimum dps required to keep the repair timer paused has been decoupled from the damage cap, which means we can now set this value independently for each layer of the structure’s defenses (shield / armor / hull). You will now see this value for each layer directly in the attributes tab when showing info on a structure.

Following this change, we are effectively removing the damage cap on structure shields. You’ll still see it as a value in game, but for the time being this value is being set to the maximum shield HP, allowing for shields to be rapidly removed with enough force. The damage cap will remain as it currently is for armor and hull.

Because the current shield HP values were designed with the damage cap in mind, structures are being given slightly more shield HP, with mediums getting 100% and larger structures receiving 25% additional HP over their current values.

The shield damage cap is not being removed for FLEX structures or NPC structures for the time being - those should continue to function as they currently do.

Medium Structures
Structures have been in New Eden for quite some time now, however they have never quite settled into a completely satisfying position in the ecosystem - this is partly due to low-cost medium structures being so closely coupled to their larger cousins. It was difficult to make balance changes to one without impacting the other. With this in mind we’re breaking medium structures out into their own class - allowing us to alter the rules for these structures without changing it for all of them.

With this change, we are removing the hull reinforcement for medium structures - giving them a maximum of 1 reinforcement cycle for armor. The armor reinforcement time is being made equivalent to their current hull reinforcement times. Once shield has been destroyed, armor will be reinforced until:

• Wormholes: First available hour designated by the defender 1.5d ± 3 hours after reinforcement
• Null/Lowsec: First available hour designated by the defender 2.5 ± 3 hours after reinforcement
• Highsec: First available hour designated by the defender 4.5 ± 3 hours after reinforcement
• War HQ: First available hour designated by the defender 24 ± 3 hours after reinforcement

Note: These are just the minimum reinforcement times - the defender is still able to choose their preferred timezone to defend. This is exactly the same system as we have now that determines the current hull reinforcement time.

When a medium structure’s armor is destroyed, it will continue straight to hull vulnerable and is capable of being killed. To keep this newly combined armor/hull timer to a reasonable length, hull HP has been decreased by 75%. Low powered medium structures will no longer lose a reinforcement cycle (however they will continue to have none if left to go abandoned). Below is the updated reinforcement flow for medium structures.

These are some large changes and we will be closely monitoring how they impact the dynamics of New Eden. Please use this thread to leave us feedback on these changes.

[AnatanD_Airin]

During the war with the goons, you introduced changes with taxes that affected the entire war, leaving the opponents of the goons without money.
Now when goons attack, you introduce structure nerfs, cheaper cap/super buildings, and buff battleships, dreadlocks, caps, and supers.
CCP plays along with the goons.

[Chris_Roberts]

I will go test this and see how it runs without damage caps and with a few different ship types.

However will any buffs come to NPC stations as part of this update run, if smaller groups are intended to be unable to defend, as is what seems to be the plan with this update and the last, will competion be possible with rigged structures, or does this just push more people into the hyper alliances?

[Capqu]

@CCP_Aurora

Null/Lowsec: 2.5 ± 3 hours

hello ccp new guy

is this the worst change of all time or is it just written really badly?

because as written, you are saying timers will come out 12 hours out of the TZ when they were reinforced, with 3 hours of variation?

for example, if i reinforce an astrahut at 1200, it will come out at 2400 ± 3h, 2 days later?

how the ■■■■ are you supposed to be able to contest both timers in opposite ends of the day

thank you for clarifying

[AnatanD_Airin]

Did you deliberately introduce a difference of half a day (0.5 hours) in order to take out the shields of the structure with the first blow with a blob, and then finish it off at a convenient time for yourself?
Can do the opposite? And so only 2 cycles and there should be a change in multiples of days, and not 0.5

[Capqu]

i’m willing to bet it still works the same way it does currently, there is just 1 less timer

the dev blog is obviously wrong in my opinion, because there is no way this part is accurate

[windorf]

The concern I have only has to do with the changes of reinforcement timers. Removing one of the reinforcement timers will be a great change. However, changing the when the reinforcement time happens to a different time zone makes may medium structures undefendable. Small groups, from all over tq, will suffer the most from this when they will be unable to defend their medium structure in a different tz.

Otherwise going back to a more pos like mechanic of a fuel for a selectable time would honestly be better.

[Phoenix4264]

The half day reinforcement timers are how it already works now, they didn’t change anything in that regard. Those are the minimum reinforcement duration, the timer will still come out at the selected time +/- 3 hours.

[windorf]

For the armor timer yes. but if you get rid of the hull timer. The armor timer should react like the hull timer, using the selected time of day +/- 3 hours with a minimum time between timers.

[Kalaratiri]

Considering how much more transient this makes the lifespan of medium structures, any chance we could see a reduction in the anchoring time, to bring them closer to the POS/fob role they’re now likely to fulfill?

[Kuku_Nosha]

Do medium structures get put into low power then when reinforced once?
That would mean that there will be ZERO manufacturing done by them, since at any point a big group can come sweep in and lock your jobs in there.

[Jezza_McWaffle]

Hey CCP, hopefully this feedback is useful if it doesn’t get buried amongst the rest of the posts!

I love some of these changes, I definatley think it should be easier to destroy structures than it current is & there should be a reason to deploy heavier vessels onto the field to help eliminate them. I ‘grew up’ on POS’s so I always refer back to them as a baseline of what citadels should accomplish.

I am chiefly concerned about introducing rules that only apply to a strict number of items, in a way that doesn’t encourage a player to find out generally about game mechanics but requires specific item rule knowledge.

Looking entirely at the medium structure side of the changes. From what I can gather (because testing structures on Sisi takes time) medium structure will now behave differently to other structure in terms of their:

• Time to destruction
• Number of timers
• Low power status

In my opinion, all structure should share the same rules where possible, and if they don’t their should be clear mechanical reasons why that is the case. It doesn’t make much sense to me that if you attack both an Azbel & a Raitaru you end up in a situation whereby the Azbel requires 2 timers vs 1 on the Raitaru & it takes less time to kill the Raitaru than the Azbel. This may intially make some sense on its own, that a larger structure requires more commitment & time to destroy, but within the EVE ecosystem it feels very tacked on as no such differentation existed before & this progression does not exist within L - XL structures. It becomes very confusing to remember each unique rule, rather than understanding the overarching rules that apply to all structures. For example all POS’s have the same timer system, there is no & has never been a difference between the classes of POS’s to increase or reduce the timer.

Specific to Wormholes as well, Astrahauses are the predominant home for the majority of corps. This is because smaller corps in low class space both can’t afford a Fortizar & also because a Fortizar is a considerable asset that gets more attention from external threats than an Astrahaus & requires a more capable defence.

I am perfectly happy with making it easier to bash medium structures because they were pretty powerful defensively in terms of the amount of commitment an attacker had to make vs their cost & upkeep. However I do not think they should be relegated to a position whereby they become seperate mechanically than L & XL structures.

Please look at either carrying over the structure changes to all structure sizes, (ie 1 timer on all structures rather than just medium), or retake a look at medium structures to ensure the corps that make use of them don’t get shafted by their inability or unwillingness to field a Fortizar.

In particular for Wormholes (where I live), this change will mean it will take less time (1 day) to kill a Astrahaus compared to a Fortizar, will require only 1 timer to fight over rather than 2, & will be much quicker to destroy during the timer compared to previousily (where other L & XL structures have not changed). This actively harms smaller corps as killing medium structures requires significantly less commitment & creates uncessary specific rules to medium structure that not apply to L & XL ones.

Thank you for hopefully reading this far!

[Ember_Fireheart]

Hi CCP Aurora

Would you be able to mirror the test server I cannot test things on my new character that was created a month ago he doesnt even show up on the test server :/.

[Pernicious_Cheese]

RIP small groups with cits

[Nora_Maldoran]

• All Upwell structures will have their shield damage cap removed. (Armor and hull damage caps remain in place)

Please clarify: Does this include Ansiblex Jump Gates, Beacons and Cyno Jammers?

[Kuku_Nosha]

Do manufacturing jobs now get locked in in medium structures after just the shield timer?

[Arrendis]

So, basically… small groups that can’t afford a Tatara / Azbel / Fortizard, get the hell out of industry, is that what this means?

No shield damage cap. Lowsec? Nullsec? Here’s mah 50 dreads to one-cycle your crap. Highsec? Lemme break out the Oracles to ref it before you can get a gunner there.

+100% shield HP? Oh noes, bring all the guns you were gonna bring anyway.

If a medium structure goes to its first-and-final timer now, do build jobs pause, @CCP_Aurora? Do Fracks? Does this mean harassment w/stealth bombers can completely screw up every mining calendar in EVE, as things come out days later and… wait for it… twelve hours off-schedule?

[Thotamon]

Yeah sure do a mirror removing all the stuff i just set up so i can run tests, and i would loose tons of training done.

[Thotamon]

You do realise that goons had a part of that money to right?

[Arrendis]

@AnatanD_Airin

Now when goons attack, you introduce structure nerfs, cheaper cap/super buildings, and buff battleships, dreadlocks, caps, and supers.

You mean the changes PAPI CSMs were actively lobbying for during the war? Sucks to get what you want, huh?