These mechanics aren’t super clear, but the way reinforcement times are calculated aren’t changing - these will be the same as they are currently.
The times you see there are the minimum reinforcement times, which we call the base duration.
So if it’s in wormhole space, the base duration (currently) is 1.5 days.
It then finds the time corresponding to the first [defender chosen hour] that happens after the base duration (this is the defender’s “pick the hour” mechanic) and then adds 3 hours of jitter on either side of that.
Example: Defender selects 15:00 as their preferred hour to defend. The structure is in lowsec. Structure shield is bashed at 11:00 on a Tuesday.
First, find the base duration. Since the structure is in lowsec, that means its base duration is 2.5 days.
Next, find the time corresponding to the next [hour chosen by defender) that happens after the base duration. Since the shield was bashed at 11:00, the next corresponding hour would be 4 hours later at 13:00, but the base duration hasn’t passed so this is skipped. The next available chosen hour would be on Friday at 15:00. This is the ‘choose the hour’ mechanic for defenders.
Finally, add ‘jitter’ to that time, + or - 3 hours in either direction. Let’s say the jitter was -1, that means the structure will become vulnerable on that Friday at 14:00.
This is how it works already and should continue to work. There are some (probably better) examples than this one I just made up on our support site and EVE Uni, for those that would like to look into these mechanics a bit more.
Ok, and about the whole ‘does it pause jobs when it gets RF’d once?’ question?
If it doesn’t, then you can’t ever pause the jobs in a medium structure. If it does, then there’s no point ever putting a job into a medium structure. So it’s kind of a significant question.
Ermmm … really ?
It takes ONE BC to pause the timer on a med structure … I can even manage it with ONE hound (not even polarised).
Sure it may take a little longer tho ONE ship is hardly much of a commitment.
If you have 2 Ships (BC or BS) set up right then the current structure defences can’t even dent the attackers. Structure defences are an absolute joke. Great con tho to get people to expend more isk and put it into a potential prize for attackers!
And a Fort is hardly any better… sure it has more fitting options tho I know of a group using 10 ships (Zarms and Ikitursas) that can ref a Fort and all of it’s pretty so-called defences won’t stop them… Fighters?! Sure … let them get some more kills while they’re at it
Pretty sure the Devs looked at the damage numbers and thort they looked pretty impressive but usually not very much of that actually ends up applying to the attacking ships these days.
And now with their new “plans” it seems like defenders won’t even get a chance to defend as the timers are all decided by the attackers anyway. Great for those that can play 24/7. F for anyone else who has any RL to deal with also.
In 5 minutes, a single Revelation doing 13,466 DPS will do just over 4M damage. So for Athanors/Raitarus, you’re going to need 3 to one-cycle it, and for Astras, you’ll need 5.
Since the ability to one-cycle a medium structure is pretty much guaranteed now, doesn’t this make the shield-bash less meaningful content itself, serving only to establish a timer? And if that’s the case… why have it at all? Why not give medium structures 1 HP of shields so the minimum number of people need the minimum amount of time to generate the ‘meaningful content’ of the timer?
This isn’t any kind of gotcha or anything like that, I’m genuinely curious as to the thinking behind this change, and why the shield RF’s been made… basically pro forma.
Timers were always decided by the attackers: they decide when to attack. As CCP Aurora clarified, the RF timers will come out at a defender-chosen window, with a variance of ±3 hours.
Gotta be on watch 24/7! Can’t even have a weekend away anymore. 24 hours and you’re done, that’s what … a long shift at work and a night sleep.
Also no notifications for core thieves so there is literally no deterrent. See a small corp with a raitaru or athanor and easy payday for any alliance. High sec alliances must be rock hard right now
man @CCP_Aurora , you guys been really digging a hole here. first you mess up the industry by adding reactions, than you mess up mining for all who mine, now your still messing up structures for those who are wanting to use them. you are making stuff way too easy for pvpers and your also ruining the game. i personally miss the old days before omega was a thing. you guys refuse to work on the needed stuff and add junk to the game. eho every have been giving you guys these ideas are obviously not understanding the community. also if you are wanting to really help players, mining wise we need a big fix on the lasers, strip miners and drones. they are ass-backwards. we should lose less ore the more we skill, not the other way around. and for the mining core for the orca and rorqual, its also backwards. you make the orca use more fuel than a rorqual when comes to heavy water. also you guys need to fix how players are using free accounts in destroyers ganking in high sec on heavily tanked ships. im seeing a huge increase in destroyers ganking players and exploits on concord so they can get kills on things like freighters. your making crap way too easy for the pvpers. these are just a few fixes
Well the original timer timers (vulnerability periods) used to be determined by the defenders tho that was too hard for some so they changed it to shields always vulnerable and then the armor timer 24 hrs +/- after that… the defenders set a timer for Hull timer tho +/- (that used to be changeable each week but then that was too much work for some so they set that to only change once a month (even tho CCP never cleaned up the messaging and notifications in game - Such great QA as usual).
So it seemed from the initial post there (before any clarification) that the timers now were all going to be set around attackers timing.
what’s the shield damage cap on stations? I see that it’s being removed and wonder what it was in the first place.
found a (4 year old) reddit post on the topic, which seems to be saying that there is a cap of 15k dps for a Fortizar, and thus if you do not sustain 1.5k dps constantly your attack will fail… with the damage cap being removed, does this also mean that the minimum is being removed as well?
If you’re trying to kill off small groups in WH space you’re doing a great job of it. This might be the answer to structure spam in known space, but that’s not an issue and hasn’t been an issue in wormhole space. As with asset safety differences, wormhole space needs a different mechanic set to not drive out most of the smaller groups that call wormhole space home.
Also I hope you are aware that this change will kick out every small wormhole group out of J-space.
As an attacker I invest 30 Minutes in 2 Toons with like 300m on grid.
This forces them to either evac all their stuff immediately, or gamble that they will win the hull timer.
The attacker can force them into this position every 3 days. Heck, just have 2 guys log off 2 Alphas in their hole.
The one thing that protected small groups somewhat so far was that it is just too much of a hassle getting a fleet in there twice or staying there for 2 days straight. Also you kinda had to show how serious you are at armor timer, since even a mildly fitted structure could force some additional logi on grid.
And no, anchoring Forts and such for a smaller group of 10-20 newish players isn’t an option either.
They will be stomped over very quick for that juicy juicy 10b killmail.
It would be highly appreciated if your game design team spoke to someone outside of the blueball NS blocs at least once per year.
One of our main concerns as a wormhole group is that the Shield timer → 1.5 Days → Armor timer is too short. I’ve been worried about going on trips before because of eviction but now that window has shortened ever so much to the point being gone from home for 2 days can result in oneself not being able to have a chance to simply suitcase their stuff whenever they go on pretty short trips is quite frankly un nerving.
I like the idea. I do. But just a 1.5 Day window then a fight for your life to save your station, no fall back fight, no wishing for a frig hole. just that one tiny window is hard and we already don’t have asset safety.
Whos this going to effect? Smaller and medium sized group that utilize medium size stations for the cost effectiveness. They will now be stuck with a station that anyone can simply bully them out of in a mere 1.5 Days. No real time for bat calls, not fall back plans, no making the aggressors lives hell for 6 days making them roll 24/7 . no, now they just have to have their stuff together within a 48 hr time span and there’s simply no counters.
My counter solution is simple: Count the Astrahus as large structure making it an actual defendable station where people centrally base from. (dont make it actually a large structure just inline with the large structure proposed changes so that it keeps 2 timers instead of moving to this 1 timer scary stuff). The astra has been pointless in my eyes and with these wild changes coming up it might be an opportunity to prop up its use.
Really Liked: The shield timer having no damage cap that was a cool thing.
Don’t like : Medium structures having just the 1 timer then basically death.
It will be interesting to see if evictions increase because of this or if wormhole bushido will stand in the way and keep the WH empires inline and away from bashing temptations.
The biggest deterrent of low class hole evictions was the time needed, and with these changes a two day cruise will suffice. You can’t leave for a weekend as you need to log in every 12h minimum and be ready to pack all and leave. Hell, even if you aren’t gone to a vacation or something if you have 2 consecutive 12h shifts you have no way to get your stuff out unless compromising your sleep and/or RL schedule… it is no longer a game at this point.
In other space it will cause significant portion of the people to stop using structures and congregate into fewer areas or larger groups. This goes against player dispersion and will lead to less PvP overall.
I honestly can’t fathom why on earth would you force players to make a choice between the game and RL.
Unless the goal is bigger blocs and more salty people in highsec
