btw, @CCP_Aurora, just a reminder that the clarification on the timers being at the defender-chosen vuln window should probably get put into the devblog, too. It’ll save a lot of confusion like what @Ian_Delacourt ran into. Thanks in advance!
4 Likes
What is CCPs timeline for this bad ass change to get live?
I need to quit J-Space with my small group in case you really wanna stick to these changes.
With these changes the game becomes even more of a burden than fun to casual gamers 
o7 @ CCP
10 Likes
Here are 2 pics of my Raitaru and my Astrahus on sisi, the Astra shows all 9m hp on shield/armor/hull in pyfa and the Raitaru shows as 6m.
Raitaru:
Astrahus:
I hit my astra with my Naglfar for one siege cycle using dread guristas 3500mm guns, did 6% of the shield in damage. It does look like the total ehp has gone up a bit though, but with only 1 timer likely not all great for people that can’t form a 100 man fleet in a hurry.
As many of the posters above note, this is a problem for wormholes.
I see wormholes as being kind of like NS that is optimized for small corps. But CCP keeps making changes that make it less hospitable for small corps. This, plus the introduction of cores, plus the nerfing of upwell weapons a few weeks ago… It’s a lot of nerf batting for small corps in J-space.
Maybe bump the WH reinforce timer up to match NS and LS at least?
8 Likes
So for War HQs, a medium sized HQ structure can be burned down in a day. For any larger sized HQ, it’d be two days?
- Note: Hull Reinforcement Duration for War Headquarters structures is 24 hours instead of the 4.5 days for structures not designated as a War HQ.
Also forts are quite juicy. 4B for just the core. Makes them worth wild targets. Forts should never be used by a small group and a medium sized group better know what they’re doing cause damn it sucks watching nestors get alpha’d by 50+ man loki fleets lol
3 Likes
It kinda sucks that someone in a small wormhole group living in an astra could go to fanfest and be evicted before the keynote ends
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yeah big bummer, i hope they go back to the conference table on this one and rethink the effects these changes will have on smaller groups. WH space life blood is small groups and our news real is the big groups. Take out the small groups and you have no one to watch the news reals! Lol but…
I do like the idea of some of the structures being weaker. But the home base. The one where I already have no asset safety? Yeah please no .
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A properly fit Astra can easily force a couple of battlecruisers off, and the purpose of citadel defences has always been to assist a defending force. It cannot kill a fleet by itself & nor should it. Not undocking your own force to save your structure is not a fault of the structure itself.
I can understand this change for null sec and low sec but this change should not be implemented in highsec. You want to avoid medium structure spam as a ‘cheap’ (grind) defense mechanic? that makes sense. But EVE isn’t just about null sec and the other parts of EVE shouldn’t be collateral damage.
In high sec having just 1 timer is going to be detrimental to the game. The core requirement,abandoned state and recent defence changes already caused a steep barrier of entry.
There are already small to medium sized organisations that hunt structures for a quick buck and/or easy targets. Having to go through only a single timer is going to make it a whole lot worse.
It will lead to people having to either join a big group or block or get extorted/farmed by big groups or blocks because it has become so profitable for little effort from their side.
For highsec it tilts the balance way to far in favor of the attackers for what is the entry level of structures and their mechanics. There should be a reason for people to move past the entry level and be able to handle more risks and efforts to get better rewards. They should not be stopped at the start.
As it stands the available benefits/rewards for structures in highsec and the risk from those that prey upon said structures already act as a brutal counter to structure spam in highsec.
12 Likes
Unbelievable “update” i mean you want the wormhole space to die out this soon? Structures in J-Space drops everything without any asset safety. We lived by that and thats ok. Cause you have time to plan and defend your stuff if needed.
Small groups in J-Space should buy a damn fortizar now? A structure that they cant even defend?
So you want to force people to live in a POS? A system u dont give a damn about anymore…but hey atleast the weapons shoot at people when its attacked. So damn hilarious.
The 2 timers were atleast helpful so that the chance of like frigholes spawning is there. In J-Space the aggressor is ALWAYS in a better position. And when you have some jobless or “homeoffice” guys that will hold 48hours holecontrol you will loose whatsoever.
A pos is so much more worth that this astrahus crap now. You get your shields blown off when no one is online and then 1.5 days later you get spanked by structure grinders cause all your ■■■■ drops…wonderful.
Good job CCP you just spat in the face of the wormholers
17 Likes
This update is really good, indy and structure changes. They just need to adjust the astra timer a little in j-space
The changes to medium structures only make sense in null sec.
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The changes to medium structures only make sense for null bloc FCs who want to jerk off about 1-cycling Astras with 5 dreads, and Forts with 13.
Otherwise, they don’t.
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A lot of people have been very vocal about the negative sentiments here on the changes being forced through, which I agree with and don’t particularly feel the need to parrot something that’s already been said more eloquently.
What hasn’t been mentioned is the way that these changes are about to disproportionately effect the remaining investment in Pochven and make an area of space and playerbase already in an incredibly disadvantaged region that much harder, particularly with the changes to medium structures. The changes proposed will just make it even more difficult for smaller groups actually interested in the RP and gameplay of Pochven to hold their ground and instead get completely rolled over by nullsec blocks with infinite coffers that can just buy out the largest structures in the region and pull in their 400 man fleets for structure defense at the drop of a hat by filamenting in. The region is already dangerously close to becoming just a space superhighway for the blue donut, and the few groups that have been able to maintain Pochven as its own unique area of space have only been able to hold out by maintaining their modest infrastructure that makes the region viable, most of that being medium sized structures.
Last news we got on Pochven structures was back in July that gave me hope that there was some conversation to be had about reevaluating structures role in Pochven and we haven’t heard any updates or follow-up since. During that time, it’s been a constant uphill battle not only to live in the region but to just keep it from having all the life and flavor sucked out of it by having it become completely inaccessible to anyone not in a nullbloc crabbing fleet staged in their unassailable fortizars. Instead of preventing Pochven from having a monopoly by phasing out structures, its just made null empires the sole people capable of maintaining infrastructure with no real hope of breaking that monopoly on infrastructure thats not locked behind Trig standings (read: completely inaccessible for any form of recruitment. Thus, all things being even, impossible to have any sort of long term investment there.)
This is all without even getting into how it makes Pochven into a nothing-sandwich, were no one is able to take risks or invest in any form of content and engagement beyond crabbing for fear of retaliation and losing their irreplaceable critical infrastructure over any minor infraction. Any actually fun engagement that could have happened between Trig loyalists and EDENCOM loyalists became extremely unfun, toxic, and had a short shelf life when we were dealing with irreplaceable assets and no ability to create new conflict flashpoints once they have been destroyed. I can speak for several people on both sides when I say that the lack of ability to replace assets in Pochven is a leading cause for the lack of content there compared to what it would be if there was some ability to skirmish consistently over structures like you can anywhere else in space.
Here’s my thinking, if the goal of this is really to seperate medium structures into their own “class” while limiting the amount of structures in Pochven then why not create special rules for Pochven that only allow for the deployment of medium structures? This would allow medium structures to act as FOBs within Pochven, flashpoints for conflict, and allow some settlement and foothold in the region while still being a more difficult risk and investment to defend. This would also allow structures without the ability for nullblocs to dominate the region by dropping dozens of Fortizars off every gate and turn it into a massive toll road.
That seems like the most reasonable direction given these changes to medium structures. Is there any thought on implementing something like this in Pochven since the last update in July?
9 Likes
i know how it works but thank you for your concern 
please fix the wording of the dev blog
Well, I guess my small corp is staying in an npc station now.
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You do realise that once you undock you consent to pvp and that owning a structure in highsec makes your corp war eligible.
This game is based on not being safe anywhere unless docked in an npc station.
To any player or dev who thinks that small scale wormholers saying that the structure change will kill their corp are speaking in hyperbole, let me point out that the change makes all medium structures have essentially the same reinforcement mechanics as low power structures. And low power structures rarely last a week in jspace.
9 Likes
Sooooooooo… medium citadels converted back to control towers when?
Not that I inherently mind that. I’m team Tower all the way. Most the best fights I ever had in Eve were over towers.
Only problem is these things don’t even merit half a small control tower. After this 100% shield HP buff, an australia house will have 3.6m shield HP where the weakest of small towers still has 8.75m. And the tower you can at least fit hardeners on.
This does pretty much guarantee anybody with 2 brain cells to rub together won’t anchor structures anymore because they can be wiped out so easily.
SO… since you’ve made it clear you only want large blocs to own structures. Can you finally update towers so they comply with the access lists/new structure management systems and people can at least anchor towers then? And drop the spaghetti code excuse. Make ‘new’ structures, copy over the graphic assets and stats, and then unanchor/return/warn/replace - whatever - the existing towers in space. Hell, if you unanchor and return, that’d remove a WHOLE lot of clutter from the galaxy, too.
14 Likes