I can’t believe people still think T2 BPOs provide any actual benefit in [current year].
2 Likes
People still pay billions for them, apparently.
1 Like
I can see them having value as collector’s items.
but when people unironically claim their use in industry is a benefit? lmao
1 Like
I used to make good money with my T2 BPO. It sits in some hangar now, gathering dust.
1 Like
Just checked my manufacturing costs for some of the items.
Fernite Carbide Composite Armor Plate - 6,221
Nanoelectrical Microprocessor - 42,633
Radar Sensor Cluster 22,354
Just these three takes just under 129 million off the cost. I react all of the moon goo myself however, but I would start with buying the reacted material to make the components. There is definitely money to be made but its as much about stream lining the supply chain/manufacturing process to keep working capital to the minimum and buying materials through buy orders to reduce the cost.
@Haulie_Berry has already addressed the issue of selling the components (instead of bulding with them) at the JITA trade hub but I’m still wondering if the RAW moon goo is still often worth more sold locally in null (or to a buyback program) instead of building with it.
Sometimes a reduction in profit is worthwhile if you can gain a major reduction in your “inventory turnover ratio” (for example, BBP for my corporation is reasonably quick)
The short answer is “no”. Goo in null, at least in my corner, tends to trade at 90-100% of the Jita buy order price ( I buy all of my goo, I don’t mine). It’s both plentiful and easy to source locally (freight savings) so it runs cheap. Selling ice to eskimos, sorta.
Even valuing goo at Jita Sell, reactions performed in a rigged structure in null sec tend to be a value-add, and there’s basically no increase in marginal effort over building from composites if you’re doing “scale” operations because running long jobs cuts down on interaction.
You can manufacture 1 slot 24/7 365 with no effort for over 10 years.
But hey hum ccp giving quadrillion isk assets to players is no big deal. Stop smoking what ever it is you smoke.
Eve is not real.
2 Likes
“Reasonable amount of time” is kind of subjective. My industry alt is (due to time concerns, I don’t have infinite time to play) often doing nothing for months, or taking first weeks to gather materials, then weeks to build T2-ships, then weeks until everything is sold. Is that reasonable for you? It’s for me, of course, but I can’t telepathically look into your brain, so I have no idea what you would think about production cycles taking entire months.
On profitability, what I’m doing when I want to build something, is first making another tab in one of my T2-build spread sheets. Then I look at the numbers to see what raw materials I need and how much it would cost to buy them. Then I add in costs like invention/building fees, taxes and so on. At the end, I compare to with what the end-product is selling in Jita, and how much volume is traded.
If the numbers look like the end effect results in a net profit, I go for it. If it’s a loss or the margin too tiny, I just wait until the market changes again.
At this point, a shout out for the many, many people willing to transport tons of my stuff with 200-300% security deposits around. Sure, it costs money and eats into my margins, but it doesn’t cost time, which is more important to me. (Also if my transports are getting ganked, I make instantly more profit then I would have made normally.)
like someone else already pointed out, some people aren’t playing seriously for profit, thats whats “wrong” with the market.
My god another “mined minerals are free” goofball.
If you get the minerals in null and their market value for sale in jita is 1 billion, raw, why in the hell would you build product x with those minerals only to sell it at 800 million?!
There is no justification or reasoning for this. People don’t go bankrupt in eve because per above example they sell their hard work for 800 mil building something instead of 1 billion. They just never know it. Period.
I do agree it’s good to avoid building stuff you lose money on.
There are good reasons to do so though. One is volume. Sure, maybe you’ll sell all those t2 comps for 60m more than the hull. You might also wait a month and still not sell them all when you could have gone from composites -> hull, made maybe 10m per hull, and sold 7 in the same time it would take you to sell the components. For instance, Jita moves around 20 muninns/day. 20 muninns take just over 100k fernite armor plates to make. Looking at the volume of those plates, about 100k sell in a day, but many other minmatar t2 stuff is no doubt being built as well. So it would seem the demand for composites is much lower than the demand for end products.
Another is volume. Getting your stuff to market costs money too. If you lose money on a product’s sale price but shrink the volume significantly, you may actually make out better on the price minus the shipping.
That’s just a ridiculous. You did not take into account ALL the items using plates. Just the munnins. You also did not account for all the other components of the Muninn. There is absolutely zero reason for building something from parts just so you can sell it for 20-30% less than the sum of its parts. It’s just stupid in every level and no amount of twisted logic is going to justify it. Sorry.
When I mined stuff I always built things that I can sell for at least 20% over the mineral prices. So my income goes from 50 mil per hour of mining to 60 mil. That’s the way people SHOULD do it.
The real reason why this doesn’t happenn is because most people are just bad at math. Another reason why it happens is that you have no overhead or operational costs. If your hulk cost you 100k isk a minute to operate you might think differently. People in eve can’t go bankrupt because of bad math. Or nearly impossible. A miner will mine 100 mil worth of raw ore and build stuff he sells for 80 million and never goes bankrupt? He never knows he could make more, far more. Why? Because there are no costs associated with operating most ships.
Anyway, this is what it is.
2 Likes
That would suggest that it is vastly more efficient to move the plates via making muninns, no? If I can move 100% of Jita volume of plates in one product, then clearly I can sell more volume if I’m diversifying over more.
I can’t be bothered to do your math for you, so I assumed that it would be at roughly the same ratio. Counterexamples are welcomed.
If I can sell one item at a 4 ISK profit vs five items at a 1 ISK profit, would it not be wiser to sell the five? If I can sell more volume, even at a reduced price, I can make more ISK. I don’t see how that’s stupid or twisted.
They are not making a profit. Industrialists have competwd themselves into loss-production. And this is great for PvP-ers like me.
what are you guys talking about?
According to my spreadsheets, Profitability of gallente T2 ships sold to Amarr with the building of all composants starting from scratch. the reference prices are the Jita sell prices of moon goo and not buildable items (like PI). Not taking into account, the listing fee and selling fee.
Enyo 86.35%
Ishkur 44.26%
Ares 127.74%
Nemesis 88.25%
Oneiros 73.17%
and so on…
Of course, if you buy the T2 components in Jita at sell price and only build the ship, it’s a whole different story. But who would do that?
If you have over 100% profitability in your products, there is an issue in your formula.
margin = net gain / price
= (price -taxes -jobinstallation -hauling -time -investmentcost -materials) / price
taxes include broker, relist, and tax fees so ±10% of the price.
jobinstallation is ± the cost index of the system you start your job applied to the average price of your materials. Note that it is applied for intermediate operations too.
Hauling is basically the volumic cost of moving stuff, multiplied by the volume of materials you buy + products you sell.
Time is the cost of maintaining a manufacturing alt alive (so 500 plex gives 11 lines times 3 toons times 30 days times 24h = 23760 hours of manufacturing, assuming you do h24 manufacturing)
investment is the cost of blueprints you purchased + their research cost, divided by the amount of days to get value back (1000 days is good : 3years) and the volume of items you intend to sell during those days. should also add to that the SP cost but it’s partially integrated into the time cost.
most of the T2 ships I can see are less than 10% margin.
but yes, if you assume that your time and your invesment are free, and you pay no tax, and you have no market being closed, I can see why you don’t realize your losses.
T2 Ships can be build and produced with a decent profit in HS,. The easy answer to your problem is that you dont actually know calculate T2 production proberly. Also just buying everything in Jita, producing it there and throwing it on the market there is not profitable because there is very little effort involved in it.
Your margins seem odd. And an above 100% profitability? Wow there cowboy! Better wake up before you wet yourself!
You dont get it. The basic thing here is that you assemble the parts into a thing that you sell for 10 isk vs 20 isk the value of its parts. Period. There is no argument here. Its not subject to opinions, its math.
You are assembling a bunch of parts to sell them for less than it would be to sell them individually just so you can sell more of them, which you don’t.
A lesson for you: YOU CANNOT COMPENSATE LOSS BY VOLUME. IT WILL JUST GENERATE MORE LOSS. - You should probably not start any manufacturing businesses, ever.
EVE is built in a structured tiered production process. Components increasing in complexity. Each level of complexity SHOULD add more profit for the one who does it.
What you are suggesting is that a car manufacturer like GM, BMW, Mercedes, sell the car for LESS MONEY than it would be to sell the individual parts at WHOLESALE. Its absurd. Why make the cars at all? According to your logic, these people make cars so they call sell MORE PARTS?!!
Nuts.