Yea no. This means that I won’t be doing Abyss at all now. And probably not Triviligan shix either since it requires large amounts of isk to attempt. Any attempt at T4+ is hundreds of millions of isk on the line. I lost over a billion isk the other day to a T3 because I made a stupid mistake and ran out of time, literally killing the last NPC as time hit zero. Sure, laugh it up. It just means that any new event or difficult task CCP publishes will only be done by the excessively rich/ streamers. Which I assume is not their goal.
In fact, I’m more inclined to quit EVE again than waste time and money on TQ for no reward. Sure, if I was rich and spent thousands of $ on PLEX I could treat TQ like SISI and it wouldn’t matter. But since a major point of the game is to be rather realistic(not to be a rich money bags to sell PELX to like a POS Pay To Win gotcha game), this seems to be against their goal. Or CCP could decide to change to the Pay To Win Gocha model. In which case, goodbye Eve.
To be sure, test servers should be focus groups and those the developer chooses to have test. This is how most developers do things. The problem is that this is not what CCP did in the past and not what SiSi was for eve. To take a way a valuable tool/ player experience that people used is not something anyone who wants to use it will feel good about. This is a classic issue of given item/privledge that is then taken away and people not liking it. CCP took away what used to be a sandbox inside a sandbox and now has their on PTR. Fine, but they still took away part of the game people were using. Feels crabby. Maybe not enough to get everyone to quit the game but I’m sure at least a few will.
Right, but some of us can make that in a couple of days, for us welping a dread isn’t really that big of a deal, hence my point about not all people working from the same wallet balance, it changes the scale of the sacrifices we can make in the name of science
Yes, which means you’ll see how its done and will be able to do it yourself, just means your practice runs will actually mean you risking someone instead of it being at zero cost to you
Good for you cypherous. You’re an eve tycoon. 99% of everyone else isn’t. Since you are so rich why don’t you just donate all that isk to people? Oh wait. Do you mean you won’t just share your farming spots with us? You won’t let me make the same isk as fast as you do? hmmm. HYPOCRITE is the word I believe.
Also to make billions in a day you have to already have billions invested and corp mates etc to keep your cushy null sec space. Which isn’t the PvE audience most are talking about here.
I did watch the youtube videos and tutorials 20+ hours and personal notes. I have more skills than the people I watched. I still lost 10+ billion isk because Abyss is kirfing hard no matter what you do and you need practice to get good at it. And every single one of the videos I watched, the people who did get good at it, all got good at it on SiSi, not TQ. I was just trying to follow their advice. Their advice now I’m pretty sure would be don’t do Abyss, you will just lose money. Which is not the point of game content.
It’s not being removed completely though. Just the basically free part of it. You can do all the same things in some quiet part of TQ. Also, those people who do have disposable income DO share info, on YT, EVE Uni, and other public sites. It’s the community that is taking on the cost of testing stuff out. MOST players aren’t taking on those costs, and are just playing the game as intended.
lol eve is a game, u dont live a game; u play it. u just outed urself saying eve is your life. which is my entire point; u take it too seriously and care alittle too much about this topic for it to be natural. theres what? 315 posts in this thread now and maybe a third+ of it is you arguing with people with the main rhetoric being “just be rich enough to test things”
You can still practice on TQ. It might not be at the tier you wish, nor with the billion ISK fit you wish, but the 6 step core gameplay loop is just as applicable and the skills transferable as you go up in tiers.
Being profitable and skilled at Tier N-1 gives you the safety net to go to Tier N. If you’re wanting to skip all that out of greed, then understand you’re back to the basic 8 Golden Rules and you need to assess risks accurately. That’s a skill.
I mean they consider they are some kind of authority. They so faithfully believe they are the right, worthing for them to initiate the fight against other players.
They believe they are the definition of the right way to play and others are doing wrong, believe they are “players” and others are not “players”, they only say “simple facts” and “accept or leave”. They have confidence because they are elders, which combined with their arrogance, somehow removed their ability to think about most people.
The reason is very simple, they will feel pain from seeing words that they don’t agree with, and they will suffer unless they say something about it.
I’m pretty impressed by their attachment to this topic. I would suggest just leaving words here only for the future of SISI to CCP, and don’t care about “right players” roming around it, as they are not here to talk and don’t care about what others are talking about. This place isn’t worth staying in, life without them and their fights are much better.
Discover and share knowledge is a great work and people respect who contributed them. If someone want test things in TQ, we will say fly safe. In the other side, there are people want test things in SISI and got some people say “you should be shame for doing it”. That is the main issue of this fight.
I get you and people that share your feelings over the loss of general availability of Sisi, that it hurts and sucks and is a big disappointment.
However, consider:
someone has a different opinion
they aren’t coddling and are instead giving it tough love
they are sharing the mindset that can succeed on TQ
And in return they have to put up with low-key insults (your post) or outright ad hominems (Hans). I get it, it’s lashing out as an emotional response.
But y’all have to stop with this Denial stage of grief. Sisi is gone, myself and others are trying to share the mindset and attitude that will make you succeed on TQ. If it’s tough and rough then sorry we don’t deliver it with „you’re so important I’m sure you’ll make it“ protagonist suck up rhetoric. It’s a tough struggle to succeed and at least we have the honesty and integrity not to deceive y’all otherwise.
I don’t expect you to understand, given you think it’s a mark of uncaring arrogance to receive advice. Advice you might not want to be true, but it’s the advice that does enable people to flourish regardless of their activity.
Nice try, attempting to connect your words to “advice” again. You say nothing but “accept or leave the game” in many posts and you are the person to label others in the first place. Isn’t that a mark of arrogance? I don’t see “honesty and integrity” on you. Your “However, consider:” better apply to you, as you are the person who do not accpet “someone has a different opinion”.
Plus that isn’t specifically refered to you. You are not alone, since there are people even more rule and arrogance than you before your posts.
And I don’t see if there are anyone say SISI is not gone. Not your first time to fight who doesn’t exist here.
Saying “I’m not insulting” do not make your words not insulting. Saying “honesty and integrity” do not make you “honesty and integrity”.
If you want to say I didn’t give advice, then yes I’m not going advice anyone of you, I’m just defending from your attacks. But now, I don’t care about it much now, I’m just here to see how you people continue it, and enjoy the show of how you people fight them and how you people are disagreed by them. Thanks you for your hard work making the SISI down event so hilarious.
What attacks? Io Koval, I, and others are expressing our opinions, advice, and how we see things. Whining about Sisi being gone isn’t going to get you anywhere. Being able to cope with that reality and expressing views about it isn’t attacking.
We all can say we are “are expressing our opinions, advice, and how we see things”. And there are no words about SISI down from me in the last 130+ posts here, as I already posted all comments about SISI before, I’m not here to post them again.
About the attack, you can take an hour and read the entire thread from the very beginning to see what was happened in one week ago, happened before your posts. There are different level of attack from different person against different targets, some comments are hidden by forum moderators due to being too offensive, which are the worst of them.
“Gee, y’all are right, this is totally bad on CCP. They should revert this change.”
Ineffectual: posting this on the forums is not going to get CCP to change.
Not-actionable advice: people who wish to still play the game, but now on TQ, do not have any actions to follow up on besides “wait”, which is bad advice.
Disrespectful: “Wait for revert of this change” is disrespectful of players’ time, they could be waiting forever.
Coddling: The “you are right” rhetoric to soothe the egoes of people that are hurt and only exists to make others “feel good”. Given the above other points, this is toxic: it is only superficially “friendly” but on substance awful (see prior points).
“Gee, y’all are right, there’s going to be tons of bugs in the game now that people can’t bug hunt on Sisi”
Intellectually Dishonest: 1) CCP says Sisi will be available for bug testing so this point is mostly moot, and 2) Most existing usage of Sisi as stated by people in this thread is around personal enrichment and not bug-seeking, and 3) the guy who talked about finding bugs anyway talked about finding bugs that are bannable exploits anyway which are not useful bugs
Ineffectual: posting this on the forums is not going to convince CCP to change
Not-actionable advice: people who wish to still play the game, but now on TQ, do not have any actions to follow up on from this.
Coddling: The “you are right” rhetoric to soothe the egoes of people that are hurt and only exists to make others “feel good”. Given the above other points, this is toxic: it is only superficially “friendly” but on substance awful (see prior points).
“Gee, y’all are right, there’s going to be gatekeeping as the divide between rich and poor grows further!”
Intellectually Dishonest: Plenty of actual newbies succeed and grow and gain ISK without ever knowing about Sisi, and despite losing ships (see: 8 golden rules’ “never fly what you can’t afford to lose”). It is possible to lose ships and still remain ISK positive. This is a skill that can be acquired on TQ. This is not a debatable point – I’ve made it repeatedly in this thread and no one has willingly debated it.
Completely antithetical to the spirit of Eve Online: The whole point of the meaningful universe is that loss is meaningful, and viewing ship loss / failure in execution as “losing the game” is just not how Eve Online works, full stop. Losing ships is normal. This is not debatable (it’s not me declaring it “not debatable”, but CCP games – see the New Player FAQ PDF).
Ineffectual: posting this on the forums is not going to convince CCP to change
Not-actionable advice: people who wish to still play the game, but now on TQ, do not have any actions to follow up on from this.
Coddling: The “you are right” rhetoric to soothe the egoes of people that are hurt and only exists to make others “feel good”. Given the above other points, this is toxic: it is only superficially “friendly” but on substance awful (see prior points).
I am sorry, but you not seeing “honesty and integrity” in me is just you not liking what I have to say, not liking how I’m saying it, and therefore just dismissing it because “I don’t like that guy”. When realistically, I am giving:
Actionable advice: it can be done today
Effective advice: doesn’t require waiting on CCP, just personal initiative
Intellectually honest advice: Sometimes, it’s not what you want to hear, but need to hear
Advice that is respectful of the player: if the advice isn’t for someone, I’m not forcing them to sit down and play Eve Online anyway and continue to feel disrespected by the game, and I am telling them to go play games they enjoy
Delivered with tough love: Yeah, things suck, but it’s not about feelings and its not about how big of a hit you can throw, it’s about how big a hit you can take and still stand up afterwards. I won’t apologize for being provocative instead of coddling here, as provocations are often the only way to provide people the activation energy they need to get out of their comfort zone and take personal initiative.
If I have to become “the boogeyman” or “Lelouch of the Rebellion” here to get you to log in and play the game on TQ, even if it means you’ll hunt me down in-game and dance on the grave of my blown-up pod, that’s fine in my book. You got motivated to log in and play.
You vilify the three examples you made, showing you are more polite than people who disagree with you. Its showing you are the person “I don’t like that guy”. That just revealed how you see others comments.
Hard for you to express it in the normal way.
“Gee, y’all are right, this is totally bad on CCP. They should revert this change.” → “CCP should revert this change.”
“Gee, y’all are right, there’s going to be tons of bugs in the game now that people can’t bug hunt on Sisi.” → “People can’t bug hunt on SISI may cause an increasing in amount of bug exploited rather than reduce it.”
“Gee, y’all are right, there’s going to be gatekeeping as the divide between rich and poor grows further!” → “It will cause gatekeeping, divide rich and poor further.”
Don’t consider saying they are not your words makes them not your words. You are the person saying “Gee, y’all are right”. Others can convert your words with “Gee, y’all are right” added, but I’m not going to do your hobby.
I also don’t see where are “newbies” mentioned in the third example. So what are you againsting with? If you think there are “newbies” issue involved, better make your fourth example.
Before you try. Don’t cut them for quote from my post and say contents of that three examples are my opinion. All my posts do not comment about if I will keep play the game or not with the result of SISI so don’t put what I didn’t say on me.
You are going to say you didn’t say or others should not see your “accept or leave” words, because you said something that isn’t “accept or leave”.
Your “not … is just you …” is another action of you making yourself “honesty and integrity”. Thats no difference with saying “honesty and integrity” directly.
You look up to yourself too much. “hunt me down in-game”? Nobody is even going to remember who are you. You are just attempting to making yourself great by saying you wish to do “share love” even it will put you in dangerous.
Do I said I am posting my words for love, kindness and good? No. Why you even need it added to your comment? Without saying it then you are not like that?
Then we already know the “good points” of you from your words are not true.
ultimately this only affects people that uses sisi. i dont understand why anyone who does not use it have an opinion at all; u neither use it or have it affect u.
its like having an opinion on boat taxes when u dont have a boat.
is it that u dont use sisi therefore nobody should use it?
The three hundreds of posts here was about these questions. I guess it is hard to tell the answer of it from this chaotic place.
In the world, there are many examples of “having an opinion on boat taxes when u dont have a boat”. Good to know EVE Online community isn’t an exception.
Speaking of this, there are also many examples of game developers do things that many players disagree with it, but showing one here is a bit off topic.
It’s been explained before and I’ll explain it again: the loss you could have had on TQ instead of Sisi could have led to things like:
A newbie getting their first kill
A private convo between you and a friend-in-the-making
A new grudge
Novel information about how a hunting group operates
An association between a clean scout and their hunting group
More demand on the TQ player driven market
A better appreciation for the ISK value of items, and changing your shopping behavior
You know, the sandbox, social interaction part. When you opt out of TQ and play on Sisi, you’re robbing other players of interacting with you in many different social and gameplay dimensions. It devalues the sandbox for everyone.
That’s why people who aren’t on TQ generally frown on people who use Sisi to avoid the sandbox.
Incursions my boy, they are extremely well known there is nothing secret there
Yes you do have to invest to make money, a fully fitted decent incursion ship isn’t cheap but it more than pays for itself, and i said it was 1-2 billion in a couple of days, not a single one
Its more about just knowing what you’re coming up against, i can run T4’s in my sleep as my fit is essentially immortal for the ones i run, occasionally need to make sure i keep my transversal up to avoid taking hits from the larger ships but its all more than doable and is just fairly basic ship piloting you would use in PvP anyway
Destruction is entirely the core of EVE though
You know what playing a game as its meant to be played is right?
So what you’re saying is, there is one side that are telling you to play the game as it its intended to be played, and another group who are whining that they have to play the game as its intended
We call them the right side and the wrong side
Because we play the game, why would you think that only people who use SISI can have an opinion on it?
Because we call that an echo chamber
Its more that we, as rational logical players, can see that people have been using it for personal gain instead of learning on TQ while actually having to risk assets, that is not how EVE is intended to be played, now while it sucks that your own personal risk free sandbox will no longer be available, that is how it was always intended to be
