You repeating doesn’t change anything. The simple fact is TQ is the game. People test there all the time skillfully to learn and test their limits.
You can also learn this skill, or keep crying on the forums pretending I’m the problem here. You can call me condescending, I’m only telling you a hard truth. You don’t have to accept it, but it doesn’t change that it’s a truth: TQ is where the game is at, CCP will still use Sisi to find bugs, and everyone needs to „test“ using their skills on TQ.
I’m only telling you to play another game because I want your gaming time to be good for you, if you are so dependent on Sisi to have fun, it wasn’t a healthy relationship you had with Eve Online to begin with. I’m not being mean. I’m being brutally honest.
Endlessly repeating it do not define what is EVE Online nor making your so called “fact” become fact.
You insist keeping ignore the cost to run test. That is how your words being false. You don’t like SISI so you can just don’t use SISI and the problem solved. You claiming that everyone should not use SISI for it is entirely another problem.
Teaching one to avoid damage do not need do damage to them. The EVE Online is the same, and you consider to make all people accept damage is required to learn is not true. Your idea is more like ask people to make their babies to cross roads or touching fire in order to learn dangerous.
Respect is not earned by reckless and being willing to do unnecessary risk. People disrespect who know a thing is dangerous but still insist to do it, wasting others resources to save them.
Isn’t that issue is you throw “Google it” to issues?
Google gives you answers that other players made. They either attempted themselves, hear from others, or Google it too. Eventually it will reach the player who actually did it themself, then the way for them to solve issue do not includes Google it. These answers are not from nowhere.
Then how to did themselves? You are going to ask them “please don’t use SISI”?
There is only a single instance of me pointing out your statements is “accept me or leave the game”. I don’t see where this thing is repeated.
So you want me “thank you” for your suggestion of leave the game? And I failed you by not accpeting your "good intention"s?
We all know that is not true.
I don’t see what is the thing you are defending for. SISI up will deeply harm you? I don’t consider players run their test drive on SISI harm players who only play on TQ or anyone else.
We all agree TQ is a hard place where risk includes game over level of loss. Isn’t that means testing tools like SISI is needed? How it proves usage of SISI is “cheating” and “shameless”?
Players don’t have billions of ISK to run test should just accept that the ability to freely run their test is exclusive to mega alliance with sheer resources or players who are super rich to crash PLEX? No they should not. The ability to test game mechanics should be available to everyone regardless the form.
So try it on your own, it is great. But why try it on SISI is not “try it yourself”? It has to be on TQ to be called “try it yourself”? You don’t get any increasing in resources on TQ for using 100 ISK items running testing on SISI. You get experiences of playing this game. If you ask people only use TQ to play then how you are going to get experiences of things that consuming resources? If you just say “there is nothing stopping you from test on TQ” then players will soon running out of resources to run futher attempts and get more experiences, or they just don’t have resources to run one test in the first place, and this is what stopped them from test on TQ and learn on TQ.
I would be happy if you donate 100 billion ISK to everyone who needs resources to keep running test drive so we can accept only run tests on TQ and only learn on TQ.
That is almost impossible. That is why SISI is required by players. Some of you keep saying SISI allows players learn without risk. But isn’t that a good thing? An environment that allows any players, regardless their profile and wealth, can learn this game, makes this game fair to all.
For who just saying EVE Online is high power to win, that is nothing related to the ability to learn the game via SISI should be removed or kept. Power to win is for have your place in the New Eden, for you go get sovereignty dominance and wealth and ISK above other, for you to run the best fleet that shine to others, not for the ability to learn how things works is superior than others.
Sure but the definition already exists, you’re a little late to the party my friend
Where have i ignored the costs to run mass tests?
Running a server once a month is cheaper than running it 24/7, the math is pretty simple
I’m claiming that 99% of people using it are not using it for its intended purpose, by all means dispute this fact if you can, you yourself admitted to not using it for its intended purpose
Thats literally why the tutorial blows up your ship and podkills you
You know, that thing CCP made
No, respect is earned by demonstrating that you can think for yourself and do your own research and testing while accepting that learning carries risks
Correct, they searched for an answer, nobody had one, so they did the experiment to test the result, most of the time with a willingness to lose something in the process because they understand that risk means reward
I don’t need to ask, CCP is telling them not to by removing it as an option, you don’t have to like that if you don’t want to, but you do need to accept reality
No but it will harm the game, people always complain that things are too easy and thats because people have already solved it and written up guides thanks to having played too many hours on SISI with zero risk
No?
Why would the game being hard mean you need a safe space to practice in, thats the whole point of it being hard lol
And they are, you just need to work for the ISK to fund your experiments instead of expecting CCP to just hand you billions of ISK worth of free ships to test with
Because that is how the game is designed, you really seem to be unwilling to accept the idea of the sandbox that CCP created
By consuming those resources, again not sure what part of this is causing you confusion
To go back to your own analogy of crash test dummies, do you think that equipment is free and doesn’t cost money to replace after being destroyed? there is a consumption of materials in that testing
Go out there and earn it, you don’t need 100 billion to conduct testing, you just need to be careful with what you fly
You mean other than the fact that this is how we always did it?
Impossible for you to understand doesn’t mean the task is impossible for others
Correct, and how do you think people got that power? because it wasn’t from SISI
Ah yes, such a fine idea, lets create more disparity between the rich and poor, the old and new.
CCP you should be focusing on customer acquisition to solve your financial problems, yet you are making decisions that are just going to turn new people away… no new person is going to want to hand you $20 a month to play a game with an already extremely steep learning curve and no way to test expensive content. You will just turn new players/poor players away from trying new content until they simply quit. No one wants to grind for a month to earn the isk to fit an abyssal ship just to have it blow up in 2 minutes, you think they are going to shrug thier shoulders say “thats eve” and grand another month just to blow up again? No they are going to never try that content again or quit all together.
I understand why players say “thats eve” i understand the perspective of “play the game in the game” but from a corporate perspective making content harder for newer players is the DUMBEST MOVE YOU CAN MAKE
Are you hoping they will say “guess ill buy plex for isk” so you can milk more money from them? Because i promise that is not at all what is going to happen. No one is going to dump money into a game they just started and is already frustrated with… they just quit.
15 years i have played this game, ive seen tons of isk flow through my wallet and have watched even more explode in front of my eyes, will this change affect me? Probably not in the slightest. But i fear for the newer and less wealthy players and the very clear wedge this will forge between them and us… and it is insanely unfair to them and will not have the effect you intend.
This will not save CCP money it will only cost you, this will not improve the new player experience, it will hinder it.
Anyone saying this is a good idea is only looking at is as a “f you” perspective. It is saying “i have the resources to not have to use sisi and if you dont who cares” the removal OR the retention of sisi doesn’t impact this type of player AT ALL, they are only saying this because they know it WILL impact the player with less resources and isk and they take joy in the fact they will have an even tougher time coming up to thier level. Its pure classism and hatered. Not a single players quality of life will be improved by this move.
The notion that using sisi to test fits and mechanics is somehow bad because they “arent risking anything” is just pure ignorance. I can test fits for 2 months but i still have to buy it on TQ and it still has to undock… saying “there will be more people to hunt because they have to test on TQ” is the most BS thing i heard in this entire comment section. Give them 2 days on sisi to test a fit and they are going to be out there anyways in confidence mode ready to be ganked at any time… just because i test a 6 billion isk abyssal fit on sisi for a few days doesn’t stop me from being ganked the second i undock with it on TQ, or the second i exit the abyssal site… it just doesn’t make sense… do you want 1000 players with bad fits and no experience flying into an abyssal site and dieing leaving behind any rewards, and then never trying it again or do you want 1000 players that took a couple days on sisi to get confidence to run the site, grab the loot, and then you can gank them and yank the loot on the other side?
Sisi gives the confidence needed to many new player to spend the isk and do the things that lead to PVP encounters, removing sisi will be detrimental to the development of new players.
You cant make it make sense… you just cant, from no perspective does this help the players OR CCP even if they think it will by saving on the power bill… and if thats the case then you are robbing peter to pay paul… destroy a portion your subscription base which is your entire source of income so you can pay a smaller power bill?? This is being penny wise and pound stupid.
Maybe CCP should develop another game if they are hurting for cash… not shoot their cash cow in the foot
If you’re so dependent on a simulation that isn’t the game, in order to play the game, it isn’t a good sign. Y’all can spin in as “oh we are finding bugs” or “oh we are just testing our fits we can’t afford” and “oh we are just poor trying to get a leg up” and that the whole point: you are cheaters screwing over the actual space poors. Everyone else poor as ■■■■ has to figure this out for themselves in the real game on TQ and get good at that skill of testing the waters without going broke. And CCP can still set aside the appropriate test days for bug bashing. Wins for everyone!
That’s the point I made earlier. The core gameplay loop of Eve is:
Y’all can’t address this point because everyone knows its the uncomfortable truth. Sissy warriors are cheating at steps 3 and 4 by opting out of the game. Stop being dependent on Sisi and just play the game. Lose ships, for real. Hone actual skills. It’s not bad to lose ships.
False. Try define less things that only you people deeply believe to be true. They don’t even worth me to commonts anymore. I don’t want repeat what I already said.
People don’t accept it. CCP don’t close the thread to disallow people post their words here either. Being the player of this game have rights to post comments. If you have no issue about it then your work here is done.
What you are consider is right harm the game instead. Already explained any you ignored it.
You intentionally misunderstanding what I’m talking about.
Then that is CCP’s issue of setting that intended purpose. Again we have rights to say disagreements here. You have rights to say disagreements towards us but I’m out of interest of explain things that you filtered out to see.
That is a good example shows ship destruction gameplays without risk involved. Reads it carefully before post to avoid your own words are againsting you.
You again just nullify the work required to learn by your easy words. Not worthing me to explain it again.
Impossible for you to understand that the full sentence you cut in half means “donate 100 billion ISK to everyone” is impossible.
For who just saying EVE Online is high power to win, that is nothing related to the ability to learn the game via SISI should be removed or kept. Power to win is for have your place in the New Eden, for you go get sovereignty dominance and wealth and ISK above other, for you to run the best fleet that shine to others, not for the ability to learn how things works is superior than others.
And again you attempting to cut my sentence in half and intentionally to misunderstanding it. What you just said has no relation to the ability to learn the game. Combined with you just repeating my “it is not from SISI”, you just expressed nothing from it.
Then the topic ends here. Don’t repeat it unless you want keep sinking into it.
Why would you fanatically againsting so many players at the same time? After all, you are the people who initiated a fight at other players. I cannot see a reason other than you just want to show “you don’t know what is EVE Online but we do”. Or you must be deeply wounded by disagreement comments to CCP despite none of them targeted you.
This much is obvious. You would like to talk about anything else than the core gameplay loop of Eve. I can bring it up for a third time if you would like:
Would you like to address the core of the argument?
Everyone can see the deflections as “I can’t argue against this because I have a dependency on Sisi to escape this core gameplay loop”. It is actively harmful to actual newbies and space poors who didn’t use Sisi, and now you’re just on equal footing with everyone else. But they’re more skilled than you, since they grew up forged by the fires of TQ, and know how to test effectively without breaking their wallet. There is no sympathy, no pity, to be had with your deflections.
Your ad-hominems only betray your lack of ability to actually engage on the core issue of the gameplay loop of Eve. Drop them. Or continue them, they don’t bother me, and only make you look emotional.
Your skills of cutting sentences in half and intentionally to misunderstanding them and repeating words wont help you express. And of course you can bringing up that thing for any times you would like, not I would like.
The sentence you referenced is “I cannot see a reason you fanatically againsting so many players at the same time”, not the thing you “bring it up for a third time”.
You are people who started insult and label others. You define that SISI users is lower level than you people “TQ players”. You connecting your so called “opting out of the game” in “steps 3 and 4” to “cheating” is an personal attack. Your words about lowering others better applied to you.
Lastly, don’t pretend to be you are the person holding “the core of the argument”. The core of the argument is why you initiated a fight at other players desptite none of them targeted one of you.
Is quite literally not an ad-hominem. An ad-hominem requires me to say someone else’s argument is wrong based upon personal attacks and misrepresentations, and here I am making my own argument, so from the get-go it’s not an ad-hominem to call such people cheaters who are devaluing actual newbies and actual space poors that never used Sisi in the first place.
An actual ad-hominem would be “you’re a cheater for using Sisi, therefore whatever you say is wrong” and it’s pretty clear I want to be challenged by your viewpoint. But you won’t deliver. That’s not my failing, no matter how much you spin it.
It’s clear you disagree with me about the gameplay loop. That much is known. But you will still say anything except a substantive counter. That’s not my problem. Your behavior is to literally say whatever words you can think of to save face (poorly) and actually make ad-hominems to dismiss it, Exhibit A:
No, I ask biting, pointed questions. If you can’t handle criticism of your ideas, just like you can’t handle real loss on TQ as part of the core gameplay loop, that’s not my problem. That’s a “you” problem.
I’m not going to quote your entire comments to display they are nothing but “lowering others”. I saved them anyways in case of you are going to edit them out to says I’m wrong.
You are trying to define something so called “loop” do not make your comments true and there is no point I should accept that I have a problem you fabricated.
And “You” includes more people before you. But some of their commonets againsting other players are flagged out by forum moderators as being offensive and inappropriate so you probably won’t see them now.
Very impressive that people can start a fight like this as we hurt them while we don’t. I’m not interested in this and everyone will not going to change anything others consider. If all are not going to talk then just ends here.
Everyone here all not listen to the other so nobody is at a higher level than other. That eliminated all meaning of continue saying things to other.
CCP will do the final decision. What we and you say do not represent them.
This point of view is fine for a player of a game, you are entitled to it… and it has been the EVE culture since damn near the beginning.
However facts are facts, and the fact is this mindset/culture is what is killing the game. To be clear what i mean by “killing the game” is not saying the game itself is going to downhill, but that it is causing less newplayers to come in and more old players to “win” as time goes on resulting in a net decline of subscribers month over month and year over year… you can say “who cares, if they cant take it they dont need to be playing anyway. This is not the game for them” and… you aren’t entirely wrong but you must realize and be able to see how that standpoint CANT be taken by CCP. Its completely anti buisness to activately TRY to tell people that the game THEY WANT PEOPLE TO PAY FOR is not for them or that they dont care if you are struggling…
However they keep going with that stance, they keep touting the line “EVE IS HARD” and the finances of CCP have reflected that choice year over year. They are hemorrhaging money and are still taking steps to preserve the culture… and it WILL kill this game in the end.
To be in agreement with that as a player is just short sighted nonsense just because you want the game to be harder for other people… for literally absolutely no reason that affects you in the slightest just because “Thats EVE”
I don’t agree with this in the slightest and eventually CCP will have to do something about it or this game WILL die.
When they start talking about $50 sub fees and turning off TQ on Mondays and Wednesdays to save money you will look back on this moment and remember you chose the side of “Thats EVE, who cares if people think its hard they should cancel their subscription and quit if they think its hard” and realize that thier money may have saved the game you love and it wouldn’t have affected you in the littlest amount to let it happen.
But no… ■■■■ em… being a dick for no reason means more to the culture of eve then making a game people want to start playing.
Im 15 years deep and i would not START playing this game today if i had just found out about it… i simply wouldn’t… the only reason i play is because ive been here for so long and im established, and when i started 15 years ago that was a possibility. Starting today consists of being flooded with mechanics that are shoddy at best, flooded with spam, flooded with hate, and with the sinking realization that every part of new eden has been owned for decades and you can either stay in high sec or you have to join up with someone and just be another number, the days of starting something with a group of people and forging your way through new eden is all but dead and that was 80% of the draw to the game 15 years ago. Now i honestly have no clue what the draw is to new players and honestly dont know why anyone would download this game unless they have already played it.
And they would say that because you think that “Eve is not for you” and your money isn’t needed… all while CCP grows closer to bankruptcy every year and will eventually be shutting all the servers down if the trend continues…
But that doesn’t matter… what matters is that they ■■■■ on you for using a test server that doesn’t infringe on them or affect them in any way at all… its so disappointing to see this… i haven’t popped onto sisi in over 10 years and yet i dont give a damn if someone else wants to and there is no need for me to hate on anyone that does… these people give off the most insecure vibes i have seen in a while… like someone is going to get an advantage over them or something by using a server accessible by all…
I have no strong opinions since I never used the test server. However, the claim i keep seeing on here that this will especially hurt new players the most is just plain outrageous to the point where I can safely say that you are reaching as far as you possibly can to convince people for your own benefit rather than for the sake of new players. As a newer player, you’re not fooling me that you’re arguing for my sake.
There is no need to fool anyone, it goes without saying that newer players and poorer players are the only people this effects, essentially driving a wedge between the old and rich, and the new and poor.
This isn’t grasping it is just reality, and while you may have not used sisi most fits/strategies you see on google or YouTube or even from corpmates were developed ON sisi giving you an indirect benefit. It may not affect you much… or at all but to say because it doesn’t affect you then it doesn’t affect all new players is not a good use of logic… it is one less tool at the disposal of new players to learn the game and specific mechanics and for that reason alone it is a step in the wrong direction.
There are alot of people that love a challenge and are fine grinding over and over and accept the frustration of dying again an again to learn something new… in the old days we would call that the perfect person to play eve… but not everyone is like that, i would go as far as to say MOST people aren’t like that… and to say BECAUSE they arent like that then they dont need to play eve or we dont need them… is again a very short sighted and narrow view that is leading CCP to bankruptcy.
Im very glad you are finding the game well and sisi is not a tool you needed to use all the power in the world to you. But saying that eliminating something that lessens the learning curve for any new player that NEEDS it doesn’t affect new players or the game in a negative way is jusy purely and completely wrong
You need to settle down, take a deep breath, and actually listen to yourself. You’ve been doomposting essays that this will kill Eve and cause ccp to go bankrupt because newer players, who almost certainly don’t know that there is a test server, won’t be able to test their fits for pve.
For me, I never said SISI is for new players. The game already have thick tutorial, career agents and career programs that give new players a large amount of beginning resources and knowledge of gameplays. They are also protected from high-sec, Rookie Abuse Policies so no problem for them to learn how to play EVE there.
In fact bringing a new player to SISI, who don’t know what is EVE or even not complete its tutorial and learn basic controlling actions, is somewhat harm them and is not good for making them know how EVE works. I will say commonly SISI is for who know how to play EVE but want to know more about it, like capital ships operations or extreme situations survival, or just where are keepstar hardpoints. Not for players who don’t know how to play EVE.
So I said SISI is for all - not specifically new players.
The problem with new players are however, less new players join the game. This issue have many causes and SISI status probably won’t change it much, as SISI changes harms old players more rather than harm new players.
Dude this isnt going to kill eve, EVE IS ALREADY DYING its not some big secret, and im not posting on behalf of new players im posting on behalf of CCPs wallet new subscriptions are the LIFEBLOOD of the game and any change that makes the game harder or more frustrating to new players is a step in the wrong direction… period. It is that simple. You are again taking your experience and extrapolating it over all new players, and ive met and talked to damn near 1000 if not more new players over my years and most of them know what the test server is, and most corporations take their new players onto sisi to train them on PVP tactics ALL THE TIME so i have no clue what you are talking about but this directly affects new players, you aren’t everyone i can’t believe i have to explain that
