Sisi change not allowing filaments in wormholes

There is a change on Sisi which does not allow filaments to be activated from wormholes. There is an issue with being unable to catch fleets who filament out of a wormhole but this is change is overboard and there is a middle ground which is better.

Reasons to keep filaments in wormholes:

  1. Filaments force groups to comp engageably and can lead to more fights. If two groups are going to fight, each side must have an expectation of the possibility of victory. If one group brings an vastly superior fleet in terms of numbers or composition, the other group can use filaments to extract. Without the use of filaments the smaller group might not have tried to fight in the first place for fear of being camped in a system and forced to log out for a day or longer.

  2. Filaments allow better large brawls between mid to large size wormhole corps. Often these brawls will happen in the home system of one the two larger corps. The home corp has a built in advantage in terms of quickly reshipping if their pod is not bubbled or they have an escape frig. Another big advantage of the home corp is the mass of ships they can bring to the fight. The visitor has to consider the mass of connections needed to reach the other system and whether there will be enough mass left for them to bring their big expensive fleet back home after the fight. Filaments allow a secondary mass independent extraction method after the fight, putting the fight on still disadvantaged but fairer terms.

  3. People roam null or access events with filaments. Sometimes people have a limited playtime and can’t wait for good connections to go on a roam or do event sites like the winter nexus event in LS. Removing filaments from wormholes directly removes that content.

  4. There is a middle ground between filamenting in perfect safety and nuking their use entirely. A 30 second spool up would make filamenting as dangerous as safelogging and allow a competent combat prober to warp tackle to a fleet intending to filament in order to create a timer to disallow that fleet to escape.

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@CCP_Habakuk is this intended for just SiSi only?

I disagree that there is a better middle ground. The 30 second spool up idea was one we suggested (and I still think it’s a good idea for K space), but in the end, it still provides far too easy an egress route for roach fleets and others who are trying to avoid taking fights, marginal or otherwise.

I think removing them completely from WH is the best solution and that’s what I’ve been advocating for.

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30 seconds spoolup does nothing to prevent a fleet from extracting in most systems. All they need is a safe spot that is remote enough to prevent fast combat probing. If you need more than 2 cycles of probing, you are out already by the time someone lands on you.

REDNES

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I’ve described three ways that filaments are content enabling for wormholers in both small and large groups that you have not addressed. Why should hunting roach fleets take priority over having good actual fights between wormhole groups or providing access to other content for those with limited playtime? If you have also suggested a spool up timer, then you acknowledge it as a middle ground. Removal of filaments entirely is more detrimental than leaving them in.

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Catching a fleet in 30 seconds is very possible with a virtue scanner and most wormhole corps use them.

A competent hunter will catch someone stationary for 30-45s.

If they can’t they’re not going to catch you safelogging in the hole just like they’re not going to catch you trying to filament. At least with filaments you’re not stuck in no man’s land for a couple hours-days while you wait for them to stop camping you in.

And with filaments you don’t have to waste 55m3 of cargo on every single ship. And allows you to bring fights and create content.

Not to mention this doesn’t bother the null bears, they can instantly exit hostile space (even if they’re gate camped in) after escaping the blob unlike wormholers.

Someone, not an entire fleet.

It’s not a waste - it’s how you move around WHs. Having 55 m3 more is not creating fights. Wormholes were far more vibrant before these filament changes, and they all had to live with those mechanics.

We’re still working on that.

The vibrancy of j-space has nothing to do with whether or not filaments exist.

Most people who have lived in j-space over the last 10 years do not play the game anymore.

my 100mn t3 fleet might have to jump a wormhole :disappointed_relieved: CCP think of the little guy

real talk though, brawl doctrines are popular in wormhole space because being able to fight on a wormhole is powerful – being able to extract your fleet out of a chain from anywhere in any system is convenient but also super broken. I don’t think many people would mind a spoolup to keep the convenience, especially if it was long (60 seconds+, although many wouldn’t mind 30 seconds either), but saying that you need to be able to filament in order to enter someone’s home is ultimate risk aversion.

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Rejoice, brothers and sisters. Bob has finally blessed us with a good change to wormholes.

Roach fleets better start packing depots and probe launchers :kekw:

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This literally does nothing to stop roach fleets, please stop acting like this is the case

I didn’t say it does anything to stop roach fleets. What it does it make it harder for them to avoid PvP by escaping with a filament.

removing the easiest option doesnt make it easier to catch them, filaments are not the problem with catching roaches, maurauders are still invulnerable post this change.

Removing the easiest option makes it harder for them to escape. It still requires effort to catch them, and it’s going to make them have to work harder to be 100% safe. And nobody said anything about marauders, either.

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What do you think people roach with? How do you think this makes it harder?

Rolling into a roach fleet you still have a massive advantage to just leave and get safe. The leshak/nestor groups will just feed off a ship to the drifter and not even blink.

Sounds like a good change to me!

Now please also give all filaments (not just travel filaments but also the abyssal filaments) a spool up time so they cannot be used to escape outside wormhole space either.

Filaments allow roaches to escape from a system they are trapped in, usually because the hunters connected to their home instead of the system they are roaching. Without them, eventually they will get caught bouncing safes, or have to attempt to jump a hole, or safelog, all being far more risky than filaments (which currently are essentially riskless)

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so they dont see the new home sig, they dont see the probes, they dont see the scanner jump in, dont see the scanner scan the target wh, and dont see the fleet infilling?

sounds like roachs that will get caught eventually regardless.

You often cannot leave a site quickly without sacrificing a ship (or sometimes a boosher), especially with a smaller fleet. There is plenty of time to scan the only wormhole in a roach’s home and get on it before they are able to jump out of the system they are ratting in. This is in the best case too – roaches often will not keep constant attention on their home while in site, especially if they are a “wormhole corp” and not full time PvErs.