Skiff Nerf

[Isanim]

It seems like most of the other barges got an increase to maximum velocity but the skiff took a 50% reduction to maximum velocity.
Old 200 m/sec
New 110 m/sec

The loss of a midslot I can deal with. The speed is rather ridiculous.
What was the logic behind this?

[Aisha_Katalen]

So you ignored all the increases and buffs: EHP, orehold… but you couldn’t contain yourself and find one stat being lowered (gasp) and went “well that’s not right!!!”.

It’s called balancing: the skiff got a whole lot more so it also has to lose something somewhere. That how real world worlds and that is how adults think.

[Isanim]

If it got a buff to align time then why does it take twice as long to warp off now?

[Aisha_Katalen]

yeah I edited that, I just woke up

Still, same applies. Things change, different ships have different balancing, now there are more actually usable ships. They differ, on purpose.

[Isanim]

A station can now warp off faster than a skiff…

[Destiny_Corrupted]

Use one of your mid slots to fit an AB or MWD?

[Xeux]

Having a lower max velocity will have zero impact on time-to-warp. It will make the use of a Higgs Anchor much easier, so it could be considered a significant buff to the most ungankable of all barges.

[Ramona_McCandless]

Use an mwd, warp in almost same time as before and be faster in sub-warp.

I dont understand people.

[Sasha_Nemtsov]

@Isanim

Old 200 m/sec
New 110 m/sec

Hi, why are you only getting 110 m/sec? My Skiff has 144 m/sec.
Is there something you haven’t fully trained?

[Bonnie_Peebles]

Its all part of the changes in new patch.
Skiff got axed, randomly.
It supposed to be tankiest miner ship, but just I dont get how those changes align with “… goal with Barges and Exhumers is to create meaningful choice between survivability, yield, and ore hold. However, we understand that some of these ships are not survivable enough. To that end we’re working closely with the CSM to define the best approach, but our end goal is to significantly increase the EHP of all barges and all exhumers as well as their mining yield.”.

1. Mass Increased > become slower > longer turn / warp time > easier to gank;
2. Lost Mid Slot > lost Invulnerability Field > less resistances > easier to gank;
3. CPU decreased > lost Mid Shield Extender > less shield HP > easier to gank;
4. Base Shield HP increase 6000 to 6500 > insignificant;
5. Base Armor HP increase 5000 to 6000 > irrelevant, ship is shield-tanked;
6. Base Structure HP increase 5500 to 6500 > laughable, if a miner is in structure, its over;
7. Signature radius increase 150 to 200 > faster target lock > easier to gank;
8. Ore Hold increase > stay in Space longer to fill > chance to be ganked increased;

From Extraction To Production: Update

Dear Capsuleers, We thank you for the time you’ve spent exploring the changes and providing valuable feedback. We’ve spent this week listening to podcasts, reading forum posts and blogs, and interacting with Discord communities and so forth. It’s rare for us to update Sisi (and post a Dev Blog) this early in the process, but this is an important one and we wanted as many eyes on it as possible. We also want to thank the CSM for their input and help in shaping the plan, the details of which you…

Designers of new changes act like an incompetent government - they declare ‘reform for better brightier future’, sketch on paper dumbed-down simplified scheme how to make everybody prosperous (just take from the Rich and redistribute among the Poor), then implement, and in the end we the people end up paying for their miscalculations.

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Bonnie_Peebles

Ore Hold increase > stay in Space longer to fill > chance to be ganked increased;

Good job. I don’t think even I’d be able to come up with something like that.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Isanim

If it got a buff to align time then why does it take twice as long to warp off now?

That’s because CCP changed the mass of the barges and exhumers. They gave the Procurer and Skiff double the mass they used to have (why? I don’t know) and reduced the mass of the Covetor and Hulk.

This resulted in worse agility for the Proc and Skiff, and better agility of the other barges and exhumers.

Additionally all barges and exhumers got a buff directly to agility, so now the Covetor and Hulk align way faster than before.

[Gordon_Murphy]

I know when I’m shopping for a ship that’s not going to move at sublight speeds -at all-, velocity is the stat I’m looking at the most.

[Ramona_McCandless]

Oh look, another OP full of either misunderstood readings, or just lies.

These should be closed for rumour mongering.

[Dracvlad]

So been playing with fits: Objective single yield module in low and then defence, using shield and damage control plus bulkheads. Exhumers have T2 Modulated Strip miners, mining barges T1. Covetor cannot do T2 multispectum and needs more CPU, Skiff is short on CPU too.

Skiff - 86,625 EHP Suggested Fit from Gerard 107,890 / 114,709 T1 / T2 rigs
Hulk - 43,957 EHP
Mackinaw - 63,942 EHP (Based on GA’s Skiff fit - 76,666 EHP T2 Rigs)

Procurer - 59,573 EHP
Covetor - 30,128 EHP
Retreiver - 35,861 EHP

It is better overall, but serious nerfs to the Skiff and Procurer.

Conclusion multi-account gankers will be fine with these changes, the few and elusive solo gankers will just have to feast on Ventures and the T2 versions.

Fun Eve forum interpretation by gankers and ganking shrills, another nerf to ganking, regardless of the fact that sitting pretty in a Skiff is no longer possible…, but with Gerard Amatins fit it is still possible

NB EHP is from one of my mining characters.

[Yarda_Black]

I’d still mine in a Skiff to be on the safe side tbh.

Unless there’s defense fleet, you’re bait bla die bla.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Dracvlad

So been playing with fits: Objective single yield module in low and then defence, using shield and damage control plus bulkheads. Exhumers have T2 Modulated Strip miners, mining barges T1. Covetor cannot do T2 multispectum and needs more CPU, Skiff is short on CPU too.

Skiff - 86,625 EHP

Not sure how you get that number, have you tried this fit?

Bulkheads are good on the Procurer, but the Skiff can get a strong shield tank with double LSE.

As this is my mining character he doesn’t have max fitting skills (and no reactor control unit II skills ) so I can probably squeeze out more EHP by upgrading some skills to fit faction LSE.

Scales better with the shield bursts from the mining support ships too this way.

[Dracvlad]

I explained my fit above. But yeah that is better than my fit for overall base EHP numbers but the thing is that I did have 75% resists on thermal. Still your fit is better overall, thanks will look at that in more detail.

NB - My mining character also cannot run the Reactor Control Unit II, but added it to the skill queue for her.

[Gerard_Amatin]

But what if enemies don’t shoot thermal?

[Dracvlad]

The enemies are often one dimensional…