Slow Down the Combat

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
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Cinematically there are two types of combat, the flashy cgi storm that ends quickly in a fireball and the dramatic tension building fight where the opponents maneuver, fire, evade, counter fire, take hits, and rinse and repeat until one is victorious.

For the typical new Eve player, the former is all they see, less even. They jump, they are in a pod. No battle happens at all. Its not only frustrating, infuriating and potentially game ending, its boring as heck. The most dramatic thing in the game happened and it was DULL.

That is why I started playing the first time in 2005, and quit, tried again time and again, and quit.

And there is no reason for it.

People tell me the large battles are wonderful - because lag slows them down.

Well, why don’t you just slow the battles down with the code for ALL battles?

Do less damage, have more points of shield, armor and hull, more counter measures, more repair, drag the fight out so we get to see these beautiful toys do their thing. Maybe even put some variation into the resolution so that the underdog in the fight might win, or get away.

Because as it is right now, the central feature of the game sucks.

And its hard to make a case for paying fifteen bucks a month to craft - and hope I don’t get ganked hauling my materials around - in a fight I won’t even see happen.

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Throw the entire balance of the game out of whack because a new player who doesn’t understand how to play keeps dying too quickly. Yeah, the logic checks out.

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I was told EvE is one of the slowest PvP games, with many players in their 30s or 40s … I have no comparison as never tried CS or PUBG.

That said, EvE is more a strategy game than a dog fight simulator. The point is to remove your opponent as fast as possible from the field with taking as less damage on your own. This is all open space, you don’t want to prolong fights until reinforcement arrives. Slower fighting mechanics would render solo play even more difficult.

You need to get the knowledge and skill to not die in seconds not knowing what happens, and then do the same to others while playing out your situational awareness. Most fights are decided before the first shot is fired. Also if you die, it‘s 99% you did a mistake out of knowledge deficit or misinterpreting the situation.

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As expected, both of you miss the point.

New Players are not here to work. They are here to play.

Their first impression of the game is DULL

They won’t stay.

And, beyond that, its a wasted opportunity. You could have the exact same effect but get to ENJOY fights instead of pressing a button and picking up the loot.

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Slowing down the fight is going to be boring. Far more players complain about tidi than see it as an opportunity to look at shiny ships. Some fights last 10+ hours.

Recent changes were to actually improve dps and nerf tanks, because stuff wasn’t being destroyed fast enough.

If you want to get a feel for eve combat the first thing you should do is get out of big fleet battles. Anchoring up and pressing F1 doesn’t demonstrate much of EVE’s combat mechanics.

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That’s fine. They weren’t cut out for EVE anyway. Nor are they the type of people who CCP should listen to anyway. Also applies to you.
If new players came in expecting to play a MOBA, does that mean CCP needs to alter the entire course of the game and change EVE to a MOBA? No.

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This depends how the fight is slowed down.
TTK is an important factor they design any game around usually, and EVE does have a very bad balance of this.
the OP is right that having 20 seconds to panic and scream does help in both the satisfaction department as they get to actually do things like shoot back, and in the learning department as they get to actually see what is going on. (Or 40 seconds or whatever right).
There are ways this can be achieved despite the massively different levels of damage and uneven fleet sizes if CCP want to, they are used in a bunch of games out there on the market already.

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Fight is nearly instant for you because you miss start of fight and panic most of fight.

For this case.
Battle already started at road planning step. Ingame map allows to evade most hellcamps by looking at stats.
When you jump into camp you have a minute of safe time. Active part of battle is started. Don’t act without a plan. Don’t panic (hard to do first 10 times :wink: ). Make a plan. Play accordingly.

When your plan will fail - ask other players what you’ve done wrong. Video recording helps a lot.

PS frigates really die fast. Not much can be done to fix this.

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I have to say that old map is better for stats representing.
Topic I made for fixing new map is here

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Posting in a stealth nerf ganking thread. Also, I haven’t heard people liking tidi all that much. Mostly we grumble about it but accept that it’s better than the node shitting the bed entirely.

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+1000
Best post of the last 15 years, many thanks OP.

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Play what? A strategy and society simulator (EvE) or a dog fight flight simulator (like E:D). I tried E:D and already stopped playing half-way through the tutorial, will probably never touch again. I played X3 before, and EvE is the pinnacle of gaming experience for me.

There are different types of players, you seem to be not in the bag for EvE.

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I am torn on this one.

On the one hand, real fights with small numbers of combatants are usually over in seconds. The odds of that increases with the firepower involved. Taking hits in a small but protracted battles and duels is a relatively rare thing. To give an example, in WWII a German Tiger tank was lost and rolling at max speed down a narrow tree lined road. Off the road and unseen to the Germans were a few Allied tanks. After the Germans passed, a single tank much lighter than the Tiger rolled onto the road and chased the Tiger down. When the Germans saw the light tank coming they started turning their turret back. The allied tank did not shoot as it was decided to not be in effective range. When it was though, they opened fire and destroyed that Tiger with one hit to the rear. The Tiger had its turret between its 4 and 5 o’clock position when it was taken out.

I like realism in my games.

On the other hand, long protracted battles and duels are the stuff of fictional plays and movies with a few exceptions (The Duellists (1977) comes to mind). This is because people love the drama and tension and games can take advantage of that.

And I do like the idea that you have some time to think and try stuff while under fire. In another nod to realism battles are not so much a matter of going from peaceful strolling to BANG you’re dead. There is often if not usually some shooting going on before moves are made and individuals truly join battle. Its at that point that death in seconds usually happens, or so my studies would seem to indicate.

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EVE ships are not small.
The smallest ships are the size of 747’s, except with armour and shields.
Naval combat by far has the closest number of parallels here.

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Small NUMBERS. FFS

That’s debatable. I know it seems an obvious choice on the surface, but details make it more complicated.

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Yes, I did read that, but your examples you gave are all about small combatants.
The scale of the ships makes them no longer relatable.

Duh, that’s why I said closest number of parallels. Obviously it isn’t an exact match, but it’s a darn sight closer than talking about tiny tanks or individual people or one man fighters.

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Dude…small battles and duels are generally fought among like size vessels.

And there are not any real world comparisons to a fleet of tiny ships taking down a giant ship. Closest would be something like the exploits of Thomas Cochrane and the HMS Speedy (which were mostly quick battles of deception and 1 on 1) or even the Battle of Gravelines (drawn out because the English in smaller shiops stayed out of range until the Spanish used all their gunpowder).

Vessel speeds alone make this all very comparable to tank fights. Other aspects make it comparble to submarine battles. Modules add dynamics more comparable to hand to hand or melee weapon combat.

I would not make any claims off the cuff about the number of closest parallels. There is too much to consider.

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I like TIDI for the very reasons the OP cites. Fights are more engaging and have a bit more suspense.

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You can choose exactly how slow you want your combat to be.

It’s called ship size.

Quick high intensity combat where if you make one turn wrong you’re dead? Frigate.
Slow strategic combat where you make choices whether you want to risk pinning yourself down for the next 5 minutes or not? Capitals.

Something in between? Many ship sizes in between caps and frigs.

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None of which prevents your ship going from full health to instant dead in a second.
Which is an issue and always will be an issue, which is why many games have measures in place to address this so as to avoid instant death.

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