Introduce the new pilots to a Corp that offers a ship insurance scheme that is on top of the current ship insurance.
Or
Invite the new player to a Corp that supplies ships at 1/2 normal cost if they produce a killmail that shows how they lost it.
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Correction EVE is not a game for anyone who wants that, fortunately for EVE there are still many players who don’t realize this. And there are still some playstyles that support that, such as mining. Maybe that is why mining is so popular despite the worst content in this game lol.
Of course. But losing doesn’t sucks that much in other games, or if it does you can instantly start a new game, new round and try to break that loss streak or a bad feeling about losing. Then when you win you get satisfaction.
In EVE this is much difficult because when you lose, you lose too hard. It takes awful lot of time to get ready again and it may takes hour to find a new fight/content you are looking for which further boost the unhappy feeling about losing.
But it is what it is, the game is designed this way. The only thing we can do here is to clarify how the game works for new players. Or maybe not, because would they still played it? 
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Well, the career agents specifically require that you lose 2 ships, so I think that was an attempt to convince players that ship loss is inevitable and okay. Regardless, I don’t know what else can be done -higher level suicide missions? That might be cool. Maybe scale pay to the number of rats killed/objectives completed before death so people won’t just fling an empty hull at them. Anyway, I’m not opposed to mentoring, but that takes a lot of time and effort, so I don’t really consider that a feasible option. Also, ganking probably helps teach some new players that ships are disposable.
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Thanks for the shoutout.
I wrote a lot on my previous persona as well, Mobadder Thworst.
This game used to be a thing to behold. Dark and gritty. Mean and visceral.
Now it’s space farming 2020.
So much fun.
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Were it up to me™, the new player experience would include a “PVP mission agent” where the player is tasked to actually go and fight other players in lowsec.
But the status quo of eve is victim and victimizer so there won’t be any actual teaching noobs how to be brawlers or anything like that. The money is in krabs, and they are the prey.
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Well its not a bad idea but i suggest that if CCP provide comokete insurance for hull and modules of a ship for a small fee and multiple times for Newbros and the payout must be according to in game market price not an estimated value then they might stick to the game.
Yes. You can’t really isolate a new player from the core game. You don’t really learn to play any sport or game, or anything for that matter, but just watching, or pretending to play. It is counter-productive to shield players from the core game for very long, any longer that it is to get a basic understanding of the UI and mechanics. Otherwise, you are just doing a 'bait-and-switch" by shielding them from what the game is all about - building and losing ships - when you eventually do release them into the wild.
And yes, as CCP Ghost and others have described, it is how that “magic moment” where you lose those first ships is framed that is important. We as experienced players can help ease new players into that, by explaining what is going on, and reassuring them it is perfectly normal for that other guy to want to blow you up without being a tear-harvesting sociopath, and give them some advice to improve. Also, possibly help them with a new ship, or even join up with them depending on the context.
And I am even for CCP continuing to take the initiative and reach out to new players that experience a loss directly:
Many players lose that first ship to NPCs created by CCP so it is their job to do their part in helping new players through the “magic moment” as well.
But I will say no one, aside from a few asshole outliers, tries to extract tears from new players intentionally. Some may get swept up in the heated trash talk that sometimes goes on, or killed when they wander somewhere veterans are busy exploding each other, but the number of legitimate jerks targeting new players I have ever run across I can count on one hand, and they never last long before CCP sends them packing. But I have seen plenty of Eve players targeting everyone, or people apparently weaker than them, or industrialists, or loud-mouths, and so forth, but that is the actual game and new players have to learn to navigate that. Eve is a competitive, single-shard PvP sandbox, and like rats on a sinking ship, CCP’s job is to build a universe that puts us at each other’s throats.
That said, there is plenty of safety in New Eden (and probably far too much for veterans) for a new player to learn and gain power without being completely dominated by the veterans. I think CCP could improve this and flatten the power gap - make it easier for new players and harder for veterans - and they have said they are trying, but the game isn’t broken now. If anything, the statistics still show that new players are still many orders of magnitude more likely to be “griefed” out of the game by boredom or confusion than existing players killing them.
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Look at the changes, events and patches since last years Trick or Treat. It’ll get better again.
Yes, I think you are right. It would be very good to see real statistics released by CCP breaking down the new player wastage. If we knew when new players leave, particularly if they never return, that would help generate more ideas like this.
EVE historically lost 95% of its players. This was used as part of the argument for deleting the names of accounts that never subscribed. There was the odd fruitcake who came back and complained about it but the reasoning was simple and afaik the policy is still in place. It freed up a metric F-ton of names. Around 10 million people have made an account for eve but only 5% ever stayed.
So how do we persuade new players that losing ships is ok?
In my opinion that’s on CCP to do and quite frankly this game isn’t set up to operate on that premise.
The game was designed and implemented to be a huge time sink, with most of that time being focused on advancing the character by grinding PvE content in order to generate ISK that’s needed to buy skills, ships and equipment.
Buying and training up the necessary skills just to pilot and advance up in various ships is a large time sink in itself. Career oriented skills and equipment needed to engage in that content adds even more grind to the time sink.
If CCP wants players to constantly lose ships in Eve, then they need to give out free ships and equipment equal to that characters skill level. Keep the different ISK generating options available so players can buy the various skills required for character advancement in both ship and career choice.
My corporation attempted to do this and it worked for a while but eventually people stopped going on fleets. Even free ■■■■ isn’t good enough. People find the act of work rewarding in itself and I suppose by taking away the need to be engaged outside of PVP we robbed them of motivation to be engaged with EVE as an MMO.
So be careful with this “free stuff” argument, it backfired on us it, it will backfire on CCP too.
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You lose what you risk. Stop risking things that are hard to replace
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Here is a hint:
- Example newbro starts EVE Online for the first time.
- Example newbro does the tutorial
- Example newbro like the path of making isk with missions and takes on the first missions difficulty level 1.
- Example newbro gets into trouble in said mission and warps into an asteroid belt to “safety”.
- Example newbro gets blown to bits by triglavians.
- Example newbro was expecting a mission payout of an insane amount of 20.000 isk
- Example newbro checks the market for a ship replacement
- Since New Eden went out of minerals and ore to mine, the price tag for a replacement boat is “only” 5 million isk
- Example newbro makes a guesstimate that replacing that frigate he lost will take 200 missions and replacement ships with an absurd amount of in-game currency and time to get blown up in now 1 second instead of 4 seconds prior to the “Surgical Strike” release - now new with many less hp and 5000% more firepower for everyone to “enjoy” exploding and not making isk to not replace the ships they use or not.
Example 2:
- Example newbro2 with an unlimited, black credit card launches EVE Online for the first time
- Example newbro2 with an unlimited, black credit card finds an offer of cheat stix
- Example newbro2 with an unlimited, black credit card buys 8934759823465923846 cheat stix and believes to be superman
- Example newbro2 with an unlimited, black credit card loses 6000 trillion isk all purple fit ship in an asteroid belt to triglavians and sees EVE Online as a colossal waste of time
But I get you, it is almost never the isk. Since “everyone” makes isk with magic or market manipulation and everything else is “not viable income”.
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Well, if the player wants to advance their character up into a different ship, then they can go work the PvE content to generate the ISK required to buy those skills.
Player starts off in newbie ship, grinds some PvE content to buy the skills required to fly Tech 1 Frigate and modules. When training is completed, the game gives them that equipment and player goes out and pew pew boom, docks in station and immediately has the ship available to go out and pew pew boom again.
Now the player wants to advance the character up to Tech 2 Frigate and modules, he goes back out and grind the PvE content for ISK to buy the required skills. When training is done, player now has Tech 2 Frigate and modules to go out and pew pew pew pew boom. Dock up, activate replacement ship, go back out pew pew pew pew boom.
Basically do that for all ships and modules. Every time the player wants to advance up to another ship class and modules, he will also have to advance up in the level of PvE content to generate the ISK needed to buy the required skills.
Meaning if he’s going from Cruiser to Battlecruiser, he’s not going to be grinding DED 1/10 sites which is designed for Frigates, he’ll do DED 3/10 sites which will generate the ISK much faster.
Anyway, it still incorporates some work on the players part to advance the character’s skills without constantly grinding for ISK to replace equipment.
I just told you it is not about ISK. I have the ISK to replace the ships I am flying. But the process of replacing the ships is just too annoying and time consuming and that is why I don’t like losing.
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It’s always seemed to me that the most important mechanic in the entire game is getting new players - and also hisec players who “bling” their ships and never risk them - that a ship in Eve online is a disposable thing; it’s just a suit of armor. I spent the longest time trying to protect a ship that I’d worked hard to afford to “bling out”, only to then realise that I didn’t want to risk losing it by being too “adventurous”.
This is the hurdle with new players that CCP needs to continuously work on. It isn’t good enough to just blithely say that newbies just have to “harden up”.
They won’t “harden up” - they’ll just rage-quit before they have the chance to understand that losing ships in Eve is what we all do, all the time. In my opinion, too many potential players are put off in the first few days/weeks through not being introduced early enough into the idea that losing ships is ok.
It’s not an ISK thing…it’s a mentoring thing in my opinion. Any new player who becomes fascinated by the complexities of Eve Online, needs a mentoring system, just to get them beyond the spaceship-loss/podding hump.
I notice that mentoring got a mention in the recent conference at CCP. I think it’s a great idea.
Whhadararekkon peeps?
I think it is awsome, and where does the isk thing come from when you have none to start with?
Fix insurance yes!
I have never understood do not fly what you cannot afford!
You want to do better, be able to kill or kill faster which means more expensive ships, or more expensive rigs fittings ammo, etc.
To get the isk you have to sell what you get?
So you go try mining, and low and behold, you can loose your ship here too!
You try to improve with skills to learn (isk?)
Now you sell your ore, but you need the isk straight away! (bummer?)
I just think that platinum insurance should give your ship back and not the laughable amount it is currently giving back?
Maybe minus the modules that was looted from a PVP death?
NOTHING is easy in EVE?
Mining is easy, but it gets your arse sore from sitting and waiting, leave your chair and you might be blown up?
Questing is easy, till you want to go higher security lvl? (minus ship)
Flying around is easy till you want to go see what nullsec fuss is all about (minus ship)
So you spend some real life money to give you a boost (not all is as fortunate as others?) Buy some of this fit some of that, and in one mistake all is lost, now what? Spend some more or try a new game?
Just download a movie and watch it, cheaper and less frustrating?
And I have almost 50 mil SP!
Really want to play some more!
Unpopular opinion: insurance is broken.
People - especially new players who have the least tools to generate ISK - absolutely ■■■■■■■ hate grinding. CCP made the grinding much worse over the years. The only way around the grinding is purchasing PLEX: good for CCP… for now… but that has a way of ending badly sooner than later; and they’re killing the “faucets” to make it more grindy. This can’t last, and won’t end well.
Solution: fix insurance. People will still have to grind for their new ship & modules; however, when they lose it, they actually receive 90% MARKET value of the ship AND the modules installed. Now they only have to grind 10% their hardware’s value to get it all back.
End result: more PvP across the board. Less fear of taking risks. More content. More fun for everybody involved. NOTHING LOST.
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